Hi Alex, 2018-04-25 20:12 GMT+02:00 Alex Harui <[email protected]>:
> > Adobe does not seem interested in application developers outside of > Cordova/PhoneGap. So we've spent some time making sure Royale can output > Cordova apps, but I haven't found a way to promote that inside or outside > of Adobe yet. I want to try Apache Cordova soon, so I hope that as put my hands on it then I can post on website and/or cover it on social networks. Nowadays all people making apps are thinking not only on desktop but as well on mobile, so all of this in the end should add Cordova as part of the equation. And we should complement mobile with responsive layouts (is in my plan for Jewel layouts to make it CSS responsive), and see how things should take care in controls (for example Button or TextInput works directly, but DateField will need to have different representations one for desktop (mouse), and other for mobile (spinner-touch)). > Adobe is interested in building its web presence around the Cloud. That's > why I wish I had time to create royale.a.o in Royale so we could try to > show how we can do the job as well as, or better than, say, React or other > JS frameworks. Right, your intention to expose that we can do that has a problem, that to make a "product" that will be sell you will need to handle carefully the visuals, since the opposite will end on showing something that maybe could damage more that help. We know (here) that we can make a website with Royale. It will be work, but can be done. But for managers, they don't see code internals, the first thing they'll see is the final look and feel, and only with something really cool, you'll attract interest, then that people will see internal code, and will see how cool is that. So for me that implies lots of more effort to be done. For example, I think one thing possible now is to put work on ASDoc visuals to make it look good (I want to do that as well), and that is something more realistic in terms of work/time/results. > I'm not sure there are many important Flex apps left at Adobe. Two of > biggest ones I know of have been replaced instead of migrated. But if we > could demonstrate to Adobe that it could save time developing its web > presence in Royale or have fewer bugs, then we've aligned with that goal. > > I was surprised that the Flash 2020 announcement didn't generate more > interest in FlexJS/Royale. I was hoping that at least one major Adobe > customer would speak up and say that they still had a lot of Flex apps to > migrate and were interested in Royale, but that didn't happen. It is > interesting to note that you know of customers that are still on Flex and > we still see signs of that on the mailing lists from time to time. My > question is: what are these folks planning to do with their Flex apps? > There are some 600 people on dev@flex, 400 on users@flex, 70 on > dev@royale, 50 on users@royale, and about 200 folks following Royale on > twitter. Are any of them major Adobe customers? Or do the rest > collectively form a major impact on Adobe? I only see a few big-name > company domains for folks subscribing to the Flex lists and they have not > yet subscribed to Royale lists. So what are the big companies that had big > Flex apps doing? Have they already migrated everything off of Flex/Flash? > Like I said above, Adobe is doing so without using Royale. Or did they not > understand what's going to happen in 2020? If they were betting on > FlexJS/Royale, then they should speak up about Adobe reducing resources on > Royale. > I think this deserves more time that I have right now (I'll be a bit off for the next 3-4 days), but shortly, I think companies are : a) going to Angular, React...options and I hope we could show that Royale is a better option as the next step to choose ( so they use Flex, then React (for example) and now they should go with Royale as a technology of the future) b) they are still stuck in Flex since don't have resources to change anything since the change is not easy at all. So our mission should be continue making the technology capable of migrating and in parallel make it "pretty" so we can attract eyes and they can say: "hey! with royale we have a technology capable of doing things and as well looks sufficient for producction apps!". One without the other should result in a fail. > > One piece of feedback I heard from a major Adobe customer was that > FlexJS/Royale did not have 24/7 support. There was no phone number to call > when things break and no executives to escalate to if support was not > satisfactory. Having a company with a good track record pick up support > for Royale would probably have a huge impact for enterprises who are > sitting on Flex apps. If there are any. > > That should be made from companies out there, we could contact companies and expose that they can sell that service and that could make a business line from that support. > Maybe we should send a "Hey do you still have Flex apps, what are you > going to do about them?" on dev@flex and users@flex. In the meantime, > can you tell us what your customers are planning to do? Do they understand > what is going to happen in 2020? If you are reading this email and have a > Flex app, please speak up about what your plans are. > I'm working towards having things to show to that clients. When I have it, I'll make some meetings and then will have the feedback, for now I can say too much about it yet. I hope to be a month or so from that. Thanks Carlos > > Thanks, > -Alex > > > On 4/24/18, 10:38 PM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Carlos, > > That would be great :) > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 12:00 AM Carlos Rovira <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > That's so real David, > > > > we know lots of clients that still are in Flex, and I'm planning some > > meetings to show what's Royale is capable. I think I'm near, since > until > > now, without things like Jewel, that was not possible, since you can > sell > > Royale showing a screen built with only Basic components, since they > are > > not styled. > > > > I think we are now near to make some marketing thanks to the visuals > > developed, but still need to complete more on that effort to be able > to > > showcase what we want to show! :) > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > 2018-04-24 19:28 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[email protected]>: > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > These are very important points. Folks - Adobe is focused > elsewhere. From > > > my perspective they are focused on technologies originally based on > > Apache > > > Sling, Fellx and Jackrabbit. Managing Experience in the Cloud etc, > AI, > > > etcetera. > > > > > > There is an opportunity for Royale Developers to convert Flex/Air > > > applications to Royale frameworks. Find your customers …. Go! > > > > > > Regards, > > > Dave > > > > > > > On Apr 24, 2018, at 9:16 AM, Alex Harui <[email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > This is not an official Adobe statement, just my personal > opinion. > > > Adobe is not "investing" in Apache Royale. Adobe is "generously > donating > > > resources". Probably well past one million dollars so far. An > > investment > > > usually has an expected payback. A charitable donation does not. > Adobe > > is > > > unlikely to try to build a business around Royale. > > > > > > > > So the factors that affect Peter's assignment on Royale and my > > > assignment on Royale have nothing to do with "if Adobe spends a > bit more > > > they will make more money". It is simply, "how much do we (Adobe) > want > > to > > > spend on goodwill". Those of you who personally give to charities > > probably > > > have some way of evaluating which charities to give to. Adobe is > in the > > > same situation in terms of donating resources to open source > projects at > > > Apache and elsewhere. It has to make sense to them from a "what > do our > > > customers think of our company" perspective. > > > > > > > > If some major Adobe customers decided to use Royale, that would > make it > > > more important to Adobe to make sure they are successful. But we > have > > not > > > done that so far. Instead we spend our time rewriting how we > manage > > > classNames, nitpicking about licensing, and discussing lots of > other > > things > > > when I would much rather we prove that we can help a second > customer > > > migrate. And then a third customer. I believe if we had already > somehow > > > attracted that third customer and they were an important Adobe > customer, > > > Peter would not have been re-assigned. > > > > > > > > This is Apache, so you can scratch any itch you want, but when > I do > > any > > > work on Royale, my eyes are always on how I can keep convincing my > > > management to keep donating, not keep investing. And my > management cares > > > little about the internals and much more about who our users are. > > > > > > > > My 2 cents, > > > > -Alex > > > > > > > > On 4/24/18, 7:59 AM, "[email protected] on behalf of > Carlos > > > Rovira" <[email protected] on behalf of > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I think things will be converging until we reach 2020 and Flash > Player > > > will > > > > be removed from Browsers. > > > > So we should expect more a more things happening in Apache > Royale. Both > > > > users coming, people wanting to migrate from Flex to Royale, and > Royale > > > > becoming more a more ready to solve many problems out there. I > envision > > > > Royale as the replacement of technologies like Angular or React > that > > this > > > > years have been the "middle step" to something like we are > creating > > here. > > > > So I think Adobe should continue investing with Peter here since > I > > truly > > > > think we can make a difference > > > > > > > > C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2018-04-24 11:41 GMT+02:00 Olaf Krueger <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > >> Hi Peter, > > > >> > > > >>> My time on this mission is drawing to a close in a couple of > weeks. I > > > am > > > >> actively trying to find a new >position within Adobe. I hope to > > > continue to > > > >> participate in the Royale project... > > > >> > > > >> Keep in mind that "A magic dwells in each beginning..." (Hermann > > Hesse, > > > >> German poem) ;-) > > > >> However, let us know if the community can do anything in order > to > > > convince > > > >> Adobe to let you continue working on Royale! > > > >> My perception is that since Royale and the "End of FlashPlayer > > > >> Announcement", we have much more attention. > > > >> And I guess there are still a lot of Flex apps out there which > has to > > be > > > >> migrated. > > > >> So, even if Adobe has done a lot for the community, they may > want to > > > >> continue their job so that their customers can migrate their > Flex apps > > > with > > > >> as little effort as possible... by using Royale! > > > >> > > > >> I'll take a look at the Foundation stuff! > > > >> > > > >> Thank you for all that work, Peter! > > > >> Olaf > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Sent from: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > > > http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble. > > > com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com% > 7C6b935504e8ec432c66e108d5a9f3 > > > fbf3%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0% > > > 7C636601787726789792&sdata=2ZNZcdyDt9go76qv6% > 2FtjuMQ0oxojJdlJW1vpqgof1yU% > > > 3D&reserved=0 > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Carlos Rovira > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > > > http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui% > 40adobe.com% > > > 7C6b935504e8ec432c66e108d5a9f3fbf3%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de > > > cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636601787726789792&sdata=3i%2B%2FtdQ% > > > 2BIFTA0xDCTZTuW6OQBhh0AbDpRA8ObSnwLEM%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Carlos Rovira > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com% > 7C0595c2e7f7f249bdf32908d5aa6ecd78%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de > cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636602315232491341&sdata=Ex21qdgaVtBY% > 2FEZeHVk8XFkt6rnUfRZWiNP3L3bhDi4%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > -- Carlos Rovira http://about.me/carlosrovira
