Hi Carlos, I'm going to reply to both threads here. Again, this is my personal opinion and not an official Adobe statement.
I don’t think there is a charity anywhere that won't tell a donor that "with a little more money and time we can do something great". The fact is that the donor has to decide where to give. There too many good causes to give to all of them. IMO, if you have an important donor that you don't want to lose, you have to consider whether you can or should customize your message to continue to attract that donor. That's why I said earlier that I'm always trying to align Royale with Adobe's goals. The question for me and hopefully for others on Royale is: which goals? Adobe does not seem interested in application developers outside of Cordova/PhoneGap. So we've spent some time making sure Royale can output Cordova apps, but I haven't found a way to promote that inside or outside of Adobe yet. Adobe is interested in building its web presence around the Cloud. That's why I wish I had time to create royale.a.o in Royale so we could try to show how we can do the job as well as, or better than, say, React or other JS frameworks. I'm not sure there are many important Flex apps left at Adobe. Two of biggest ones I know of have been replaced instead of migrated. But if we could demonstrate to Adobe that it could save time developing its web presence in Royale or have fewer bugs, then we've aligned with that goal. I was surprised that the Flash 2020 announcement didn't generate more interest in FlexJS/Royale. I was hoping that at least one major Adobe customer would speak up and say that they still had a lot of Flex apps to migrate and were interested in Royale, but that didn't happen. It is interesting to note that you know of customers that are still on Flex and we still see signs of that on the mailing lists from time to time. My question is: what are these folks planning to do with their Flex apps? There are some 600 people on dev@flex, 400 on users@flex, 70 on dev@royale, 50 on users@royale, and about 200 folks following Royale on twitter. Are any of them major Adobe customers? Or do the rest collectively form a major impact on Adobe? I only see a few big-name company domains for folks subscribing to the Flex lists and they have not yet subscribed to Royale lists. So what are the big companies that had big Flex apps doing? Have they already migrated everything off of Flex/Flash? Like I said above, Adobe is doing so without using Royale. Or did they not understand what's going to happen in 2020? If they were betting on FlexJS/Royale, then they should speak up about Adobe reducing resources on Royale. One piece of feedback I heard from a major Adobe customer was that FlexJS/Royale did not have 24/7 support. There was no phone number to call when things break and no executives to escalate to if support was not satisfactory. Having a company with a good track record pick up support for Royale would probably have a huge impact for enterprises who are sitting on Flex apps. If there are any. Maybe we should send a "Hey do you still have Flex apps, what are you going to do about them?" on dev@flex and users@flex. In the meantime, can you tell us what your customers are planning to do? Do they understand what is going to happen in 2020? If you are reading this email and have a Flex app, please speak up about what your plans are. Thanks, -Alex On 4/24/18, 10:38 PM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <[email protected]> wrote: Carlos, That would be great :) On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 12:00 AM Carlos Rovira <[email protected]> wrote: > That's so real David, > > we know lots of clients that still are in Flex, and I'm planning some > meetings to show what's Royale is capable. I think I'm near, since until > now, without things like Jewel, that was not possible, since you can sell > Royale showing a screen built with only Basic components, since they are > not styled. > > I think we are now near to make some marketing thanks to the visuals > developed, but still need to complete more on that effort to be able to > showcase what we want to show! :) > > Thanks! > > > > 2018-04-24 19:28 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[email protected]>: > > > Hi Alex, > > > > These are very important points. Folks - Adobe is focused elsewhere. From > > my perspective they are focused on technologies originally based on > Apache > > Sling, Fellx and Jackrabbit. Managing Experience in the Cloud etc, AI, > > etcetera. > > > > There is an opportunity for Royale Developers to convert Flex/Air > > applications to Royale frameworks. Find your customers …. Go! > > > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > > On Apr 24, 2018, at 9:16 AM, Alex Harui <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > This is not an official Adobe statement, just my personal opinion. > > Adobe is not "investing" in Apache Royale. Adobe is "generously donating > > resources". Probably well past one million dollars so far. An > investment > > usually has an expected payback. A charitable donation does not. Adobe > is > > unlikely to try to build a business around Royale. > > > > > > So the factors that affect Peter's assignment on Royale and my > > assignment on Royale have nothing to do with "if Adobe spends a bit more > > they will make more money". It is simply, "how much do we (Adobe) want > to > > spend on goodwill". Those of you who personally give to charities > probably > > have some way of evaluating which charities to give to. Adobe is in the > > same situation in terms of donating resources to open source projects at > > Apache and elsewhere. It has to make sense to them from a "what do our > > customers think of our company" perspective. > > > > > > If some major Adobe customers decided to use Royale, that would make it > > more important to Adobe to make sure they are successful. But we have > not > > done that so far. Instead we spend our time rewriting how we manage > > classNames, nitpicking about licensing, and discussing lots of other > things > > when I would much rather we prove that we can help a second customer > > migrate. And then a third customer. I believe if we had already somehow > > attracted that third customer and they were an important Adobe customer, > > Peter would not have been re-assigned. > > > > > > This is Apache, so you can scratch any itch you want, but when I do > any > > work on Royale, my eyes are always on how I can keep convincing my > > management to keep donating, not keep investing. And my management cares > > little about the internals and much more about who our users are. > > > > > > My 2 cents, > > > -Alex > > > > > > On 4/24/18, 7:59 AM, "[email protected] on behalf of Carlos > > Rovira" <[email protected] on behalf of [email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > I think things will be converging until we reach 2020 and Flash Player > > will > > > be removed from Browsers. > > > So we should expect more a more things happening in Apache Royale. Both > > > users coming, people wanting to migrate from Flex to Royale, and Royale > > > becoming more a more ready to solve many problems out there. I envision > > > Royale as the replacement of technologies like Angular or React that > this > > > years have been the "middle step" to something like we are creating > here. > > > So I think Adobe should continue investing with Peter here since I > truly > > > think we can make a difference > > > > > > C. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2018-04-24 11:41 GMT+02:00 Olaf Krueger <[email protected]>: > > > > > >> Hi Peter, > > >> > > >>> My time on this mission is drawing to a close in a couple of weeks. I > > am > > >> actively trying to find a new >position within Adobe. I hope to > > continue to > > >> participate in the Royale project... > > >> > > >> Keep in mind that "A magic dwells in each beginning..." (Hermann > Hesse, > > >> German poem) ;-) > > >> However, let us know if the community can do anything in order to > > convince > > >> Adobe to let you continue working on Royale! > > >> My perception is that since Royale and the "End of FlashPlayer > > >> Announcement", we have much more attention. > > >> And I guess there are still a lot of Flex apps out there which has to > be > > >> migrated. > > >> So, even if Adobe has done a lot for the community, they may want to > > >> continue their job so that their customers can migrate their Flex apps > > with > > >> as little effort as possible... by using Royale! > > >> > > >> I'll take a look at the Foundation stuff! > > >> > > >> Thank you for all that work, Peter! > > >> Olaf > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Sent from: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > > http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble. > > com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6b935504e8ec432c66e108d5a9f3 > > fbf3%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0% > > 7C636601787726789792&sdata=2ZNZcdyDt9go76qv6%2FtjuMQ0oxojJdlJW1vpqgof1yU% > > 3D&reserved=0 > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Carlos Rovira > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > > http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com% > > 7C6b935504e8ec432c66e108d5a9f3fbf3%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de > > cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636601787726789792&sdata=3i%2B%2FtdQ% > > 2BIFTA0xDCTZTuW6OQBhh0AbDpRA8ObSnwLEM%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Carlos Rovira > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C0595c2e7f7f249bdf32908d5aa6ecd78%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636602315232491341&sdata=Ex21qdgaVtBY%2FEZeHVk8XFkt6rnUfRZWiNP3L3bhDi4%3D&reserved=0 >
