Chris, I appreciate you working on this. Let’s move on please. I think we all have more important things to worry about now than the definition of broken.
From: Christofer Dutz<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 11:11 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Release Manager for 0.9.7 Hi Alex, You can probably claim this as long as you want, it doesn't make it true. I started working on this after I didn't get any updates for a long time and following the mailing lists (also the private ones) and direct messages with people involved came to the conclusion that the steps might have "worked" but they were such a challenge for RMs that they had problems actually doing the releases (I think Yishay or Piotr (I think) even said, that it was "his fault" for not exactly following the guidelines). Even if something works but is so fragile to do, that almost no one is able or willing to do it, I would call that "broken". So I guess we can go round pointing fingers and claiming: "It was you!" ... "no it was you!" ... like childish kids, or we can actually DO something. I am willing to help you guys. I'm not trying to "get rid of Ant". All I want to do it make this build something anyone in your community could do, so you can start releasing in something like monthly or every two months and I won't have to invest time in learning and building good tooling for using Typescript in Maven (That tooling is pretty crappy from a conceptual point of view). So can we please stop this unproductive going round in circles? I know you have "requirements" ... so how about collecting these in a separate thread? I'll start it right away. And please don't say "Why replace something that is working with something new?" ... if this was true we'd still be hand-crafting websites with pure HTML. Evolution is about change. Evolution is sometimes replacing something that exists and replace this with something new. I won't do this on "develop" ... no worries, but I want you guys to give this a chance. You all stay safe in these crazy times, Chris Am 20.03.20, 16:52 schrieb "Alex Harui" <[email protected]>: On 3/20/20, 12:25 AM, "Christofer Dutz" <[email protected]> wrote: I agree with Carlos here, When reading this thread, I read a lot of "must", but it's actually mostly a "want". Have been waiting for Royale releases for the past months and haven't seen much progress on starting the 0.9.7 release. As far as I understood things from the sidelines, the problem is that no one wanted to become RM. I am guessing because Others have been wasting far too much of their time and resources in not frying their big fish, but being stuck in the 13 steps. Which I can't see as an improvement. No, the reason is that changes were made to the Maven process that broke the 13 steps that were working. And now it is the responsibility of those who broke it to fix it. Please stop with blame passing and misinformation. So yes: I am investing time. Time I wouldn't be investing in anything else for Royale however. So the only "net-loos" you folks are having is Carlos or the time needed to write long emails, which could also be short. If I succeed with my plans anyone can continue to do their 13 step release as you like. However it would enable RMs to choose to do it on their machine. As long as we have all bases covered in the process, I doubt there will be any objection, right? No objections from me, because that's what we had before it was broken by recent Maven changes. -Alex Chris Am 20.03.20, 00:59 schrieb "Carlos Rovira" <[email protected]>: Hi, I don't think having a remote machine would be the problem. When we finish I expect people can use remote machine or local machine, as they choose, so all people should be happy. The objective is remove complexity and steps down from 13 to maybe 2 steps, while Ant continues to work as expected. So ok, I'll try to be the RM. I must check some urgent things in Jewel before start, but I hope it will be hopefully soon... Thanks El jue., 19 mar. 2020 a las 23:32, Alex Harui (<[email protected]>) escribió: > I agree with you 100% Piotr. My hope now is that in the fixing of these > steps, Chris and Carlos will realize that we really were using Maven in a > proper way, we are just splitting up the release steps into individual > Jenkins jobs so that people don't have to figure out how to get things > working locally. > > One can only hope sometimes. > -Alex > > On 3/19/20, 3:23 PM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <[email protected]> wrote: > > I also doesn't understand that based on experience of one person (me) > you > guys would reinvent the wheel. ;) It looks like you are going to do > that > despite any argument provide it here. > > No matter what would be the outcome I will most likely stick with > steps on > remote machine, cause I don't want to do anything on my machine at > all. - > This was one the biggest advantage when everything started to work for > me. > > In case of bigger fish to fry - one those is current improvement to > Binding > and some layout changes which causes me 5 days of headache in our > application and at the end of my work day today app still doesn't work > as > it was before. :) > > czw., 19 mar 2020 o 23:04 Alex Harui <[email protected]> > napisał(a): > > > Carlos, > > > > Using the CI steps for a release will likely help you learn about > what is > > really involved in the Royale release process. If Chris is going to > get > > the steps to work, then your job should be as simple as making sure > each > > step works for you, and actually doing the commits and signing of > artifacts. > > > > Once we get the steps working and a release out, you are welcome to > create > > a branch and try other things since working in a branch will not > affect > > others who may want to make a release from develop. And then we > will have > > something to compare. I still want to discourage such an effort, as > I > > think it will only result in repeating history where you and Chris > will get > > something to work and then it won't work for others. That's what > happened > > to me. Other PMC members who want to see you and Chris spend time > on this > > should probably commit to spending time testing your work. This > makes me > > sad that we are going to spend so much time on this as I think there > are > > much bigger fish to fry. But apparently this is what enough folks > want. > > > > Sadly, > > -Alex > > > > On 3/19/20, 2:48 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > I can accept to be the RM for this 0.9.7, but I have a notion of > how > > hard > > it could be (since I spend a considerable amount of time trying > to fix > > what > > Chris did in just 1 day). I think if we're going to do this, I > expect > > we > > can then continue improving the process, as we asked in > yesterday's > > thread. > > I think we got most support for the rest of the team here, and > to got > > yours > > too, taking into account that if we don't reach anything good > we'll > > stick > > with what we already have. > > > > Let me know what you think > > > > Thanks > > > > Carlos > > > > El jue., 19 mar. 2020 a las 19:01, Alex Harui > > (<[email protected]>) > > escribió: > > > > > IMO, Carlos, you will have to be the RM to help prove out that > the CI > > > process is working again > > > > > > -Alex > > > > > > On 3/19/20, 10:34 AM, "Carlos Rovira" <[email protected] > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > thanks for the note > > > :) > > > > > > El jue., 19 mar. 2020 a las 18:17, Christofer Dutz (< > > > [email protected]>) escribió: > > > > > > > Ahem ... > > > > > > > > well ... I haven't tested my changes on the build steps > ... I > > > adjusted > > > > what I was told was broken. > > > > > > > > However if I was to test them I would sort of be doing a > > release and > > > that > > > > would feel really strange ;-) > > > > > > > > I am totally willing to be of assistance to help the > next RM > > do his > > > job > > > > however and I am sure I'll be able to get the steps > technically > > > working. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 19.03.20, 18:12 schrieb "Carlos Rovira" < > > [email protected] > > > >: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > now that Chris fixed CI Release Steps I think we are > ready > > to do > > > a new > > > > release. > > > > So I want to ask if someone can take the role of > Release > > Manager > > > and > > > > use > > > > the current process to release 0.9.7 > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Carlos Rovira > > > > > > > > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ccfbcddbf16714473669608d7cc9fd128%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637202859101165836&sdata=tpGXu8%2FuGrBW%2BRElo6oiW2Jp1MDVaO5jMBLe5lC1HZ0%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Carlos Rovira > > > > > > > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ccfbcddbf16714473669608d7cc9fd128%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637202859101165836&sdata=tpGXu8%2FuGrBW%2BRElo6oiW2Jp1MDVaO5jMBLe5lC1HZ0%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Carlos Rovira > > > > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ccfbcddbf16714473669608d7cc9fd128%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637202859101165836&sdata=tpGXu8%2FuGrBW%2BRElo6oiW2Jp1MDVaO5jMBLe5lC1HZ0%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > -- > > Piotr Zarzycki > > Patreon: * > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ccfbcddbf16714473669608d7cc9fd128%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637202859101165836&sdata=IlLIoynm0WQvAC%2F%2FTq4ACYxvyyCydmDdd%2BNrg0nmbrA%3D&reserved=0 > < > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ccfbcddbf16714473669608d7cc9fd128%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637202859101165836&sdata=IlLIoynm0WQvAC%2F%2FTq4ACYxvyyCydmDdd%2BNrg0nmbrA%3D&reserved=0 > >* > > > -- Carlos Rovira https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ccfbcddbf16714473669608d7cc9fd128%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637202859101165836&sdata=tpGXu8%2FuGrBW%2BRElo6oiW2Jp1MDVaO5jMBLe5lC1HZ0%3D&reserved=0
