Thanks for the explanation David. The concern that Joe and I raised several months back is about where > project direction and other decisions are being set.
> Work was being done, reviews happening in public, but there didn't > seem to be any discussion on future direction of the project, new > features, new integrations. They'd show up as bugs in Jira, and then > code started appearing. While I understand the concerns described in your mail, I feel that these are rooted in your expectations and not necessarily a problem with the community/project. I have, for example, worked on projects where a large number of ideas and discussions started on JIRA and not the mailing lists... Sqoop, Oozie, Flume, and even Hadoop projects are thriving examples of that. Sentry leans that way too, and I see nothing wrong with that approach. Note that discussions on JIRA do get back to the mailing list, albeit in a different format than a direct email. Projects like these typically have ad-hoc/organic evolution. They do not necessarily have a master plan for setting the direction beyond the basic idea of their mission. As long as the project is seeing development and adding value to it's user community, I think it is doing it's job well. When Sravya and I were talking in Budapest, she indicated that there > were a number of Hangouts/phone calls happening where things were > being discussed, and potentially even being decided. I didn't know > these were taking place. I asked that at a minimum that folks bring > back discussions to the mailing list. (See email from end of > September) I also suggested that maybe instead of 2-5 people going off > and setting up a hangout or conference call that the project have it's > own call, known to everyone, with open invites so that others could > attend, and meeting notes kept. Lots of projects have local meetups that don't get talked about on the mailing list. I agree that those should be advertised on the mailing list and care must be taken to ensure those who are interested can attend. I feel the same way for hangouts and phone calls. I feel that the Sentry community is committed to doing this as openly as possible and bringing back the discussions to the mailing lists, thanks to your nudging on this. All that aside, I do want to go back to my original question for you: is there an objective criteria that this project must meet before it can graduate? I would love to have that outlined crisply so that I can do my job as a mentor to help them get there. Regards, Arvind Prabhakar On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:31 PM, David Nalley <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Arvind and Patrick, > > Sorry for the lag, I've been traveling internationally a lot, and lost > sight of this thread. > > The concern that Joe and I raised several months back is about where > project direction and other decisions are being set. > > Work was being done, reviews happening in public, but there didn't > seem to be any discussion on future direction of the project, new > features, new integrations. They'd show up as bugs in Jira, and then > code started appearing. > > There's been some change since those concerns were raised. [1][2]are > nice examples. > > When Sravya and I were talking in Budapest, she indicated that there > were a number of Hangouts/phone calls happening where things were > being discussed, and potentially even being decided. I didn't know > these were taking place. I asked that at a minimum that folks bring > back discussions to the mailing list. (See email from end of > September) I also suggested that maybe instead of 2-5 people going off > and setting up a hangout or conference call that the project have it's > own call, known to everyone, with open invites so that others could > attend, and meeting notes kept. > > > --David > > > [1] > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3ccacmn7iyscd91spqgaeb+wre1r0mv-ubcj0tj6gpdecy3hwp...@mail.gmail.com%3e > [2] > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/sentry-dev/201508.mbox/%3cCACMN7iyPyq3zgMm93w32Q6z6Ka=eqpyr6gqqxf_-mc4r+ef...@mail.gmail.com%3e > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Arvind Prabhakar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Sravya, David - > > > > Could either one of you outline what objective criteria is yet to be met > by > > the project so that it can be ready for graduation? Pardon my lack of > > understanding of something that may be obvious to you, but I see a fully > > functional project community that is trying their best to make progress > > while doing a great job at self governance. What am I missing? > > > > Regards, > > Arvind Prabhakar > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:22 AM, Sravya Tirukkovalur <[email protected] > > > > wrote: > > > >> Thanks for writing this up David! It was great meeting you yesterday, > and > >> it is always good to get some face time with the community too! > >> > >> Thanks for acknowledging the progress and giving some valuable > suggestions > >> on community building and transparency! > >> > >> I will follow up on the action items in separate email threads once I > get > >> back home from the conference. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, David Nalley <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > Hi folks, > >> > > >> > I had the chance to meet and talk with Sravya today at ApacheCon and > >> > talk about the project, and I wanted to bring that conversation back > >> > to the list. Others should feel free to weigh in, but mainly didn't > >> > want to just be discussing this in isolation. > >> > > >> > First, we discussed how the project has changed over the past few > >> > months, and I think that we agreed that we think it's moving in the > >> > right direction, with a lot more obvious discussions happening on the > >> > dev list, but still plenty of room to improve. > >> > > >> > We also talked about some things we can do going forward to move the > >> > project further along, and walked away with some action items. > >> > > >> > 1. Start writing up quick summaries from Hangouts/phone calls that are > >> > happening regarding the project, so that everyone has some visibility > >> > into what is happening. We also discussed the possibility of the > >> > project holding a regularly scheduled hangout or IRC meeting that > >> > folks can attend. > >> > > >> 2. Reach out to mentors for proactive help on growing the community. > >> > (I explicitly volunteered Joe Brockmeier and myself to jump on a > >> > hangout/webex/IRC/ML Discussion to see if we can help in this regard) > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > We also talked about the graduation process, and talked about what > >> > needs to happen in that process when we are ready for it. We briefly > >> > touched on project diversity, and what we both viewed as the current > >> > status of the project. > >> > > >> > --David > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sravya Tirukkovalur > >> >
