The number of subscribers doesn't give any meaningful value. Please look into the number of mails being sent to the list.
https://lists.apache.org/list.html?u...@spark.apache.org The latest month there were more than 200 emails being sent was Feb 2022, more than a year ago. It was more than 1k in 2016, and more than 2k in 2015 and earlier. Let's face the fact. User mailing list is dying, even before we start discussion about alternative communication methods. Users never go with the way if it's just because PMC members (or ASF) have preference. They are going with the way they are convenient. Same applies here - if ASF Slack requires a restricted invitation mechanism then it won't work. Looks like there is a link for an invitation, but we are also talking about the cost as well. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INFRA/Slack+Guest+Invites As long as we are being serious about the cost, I don't think we are going to land in the way "users" are convenient. On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 4:59 AM Dongjoon Hyun <dongjoon.h...@gmail.com> wrote: > As Mich Talebzadeh pointed out, Apache Spark has an official Slack channel. > > > It's unavoidable if "users" prefer to use an alternative communication > mechanism rather than the user mailing list. > > The following is the number of people in the official channels. > > - u...@spark.apache.org has 4519 subscribers. > - dev@spark.apache.org has 3149 subscribers. > - ASF Official Slack channel has 602 subscribers. > > May I ask if the users prefer to use the ASF Official Slack channel > than the user mailing list? > > Dongjoon. > > > > On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:10 PM Jungtaek Lim <kabhwan.opensou...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I'm reading through the page "Briefing: The Apache Way", and in the >> section of "Open Communications", restriction of communication inside ASF >> INFRA (mailing list) is more about code and decision-making. >> >> https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/#what-makes-the-apache-way-so-hard-to-define >> >> It's unavoidable if "users" prefer to use an alternative communication >> mechanism rather than the user mailing list. Before Stack Overflow days, >> there had been a meaningful number of questions around user@. It's just >> impossible to let them go back and post to the user mailing list. >> >> We just need to make sure it is not the purpose of employing Slack to >> move all discussions about developments, direction of the project, etc >> which must happen in dev@/private@. The purpose of Slack thread here >> does not seem to aim to serve the purpose. >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 7:00 AM Mich Talebzadeh < >> mich.talebza...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Good discussions and proposals.all around. >>> >>> I have used slack in anger on a customer site before. For small and >>> medium size groups it is good and affordable. Alternatives have been >>> suggested as well so those who like investigative search can agree and come >>> up with a freebie one. >>> I am inclined to agree with Bjorn that this slack has more social >>> dimensions than the mailing list. It is akin to a sports club using >>> WhatsApp groups for communication. Remember we were originally looking for >>> space for webinars, including Spark on Linkedin that Denney Lee suggested. >>> I think Slack and mailing groups can coexist happily. On a more serious >>> note, when I joined the user group back in 2015-2016, there was a lot of >>> traffic. Currently we hardly get many mails daily <> less than 5. So having >>> a slack type medium may improve members participation. >>> >>> so +1 for me as well. >>> >>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>> Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead >>> Palantir Technologies Limited >>> >>> >>> view my Linkedin profile >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>> >>> >>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>> >>> >>> >>> *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all responsibility for >>> any loss, damage or destruction of data or any other property which may >>> arise from relying on this email's technical content is explicitly >>> disclaimed. The author will in no case be liable for any monetary damages >>> arising from such loss, damage or destruction. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 22:19, Denny Lee <denny.g....@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> +1. >>>> >>>> To Shani’s point, there are multiple OSS projects that use the free >>>> Slack version - top of mind include Delta, Presto, Flink, Trino, Datahub, >>>> MLflow, etc. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 14:15 <shani.alis...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I think we should remain on a free program in slack. >>>>> >>>>> In my option the free program is more then enough, the only down side >>>>> is we could only see the last 90 days messages. >>>>> >>>>> From what I know the Airflow community (which has strong active >>>>> community in slack) also use the free program (You can tell by the 90 days >>>>> limit notice in their workspace). >>>>> >>>>> You can find the pricing and features comparison between the slack >>>>> programs here <https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/pricing> . >>>>> >>>>> Have a great day, >>>>> Shani >>>>> >>>>> On 30 Mar 2023, at 23:38, Mridul Muralidharan <mri...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for flagging the concern Dongjoon, I was not aware of the >>>>> discussion - but I can understand the concern. >>>>> Would be great if you or Matei could update the thread on the result >>>>> of deliberations, once it reaches a logical consensus: before we set up >>>>> official policy around it. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Mridul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 4:23 PM Bjørn Jørgensen < >>>>> bjornjorgen...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I like the idea of having a talk channel. It can make it easier for >>>>>> everyone to say hello. Or to dare to ask about small or big matters that >>>>>> you would not have dared to ask about before on mailing lists. >>>>>> But then there is the price and what is the best for an open source >>>>>> project. >>>>>> >>>>>> The price for using slack is expensive. >>>>>> Right now for those that have join spark slack >>>>>> $8.75 USD >>>>>> 72 members >>>>>> 1 month >>>>>> $630 USD >>>>>> >>>>>> https://app.slack.com/plans/T04URTRBZ1R/checkout/form?entry_point=hero_banner_upgrade_cta&s=2 >>>>>> >>>>>> And they - slack does not have an option for open source projects. >>>>>> >>>>>> There seems to be some alternatives for open source software. I have >>>>>> not tried it. >>>>>> Like https://www.rocket.chat/blog/slack-open-source-alternatives >>>>>> >>>>>> <image.png> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> rocket chat is open source https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat >>>>>> >>>>>> tor. 30. mar. 2023 kl. 18:54 skrev Mich Talebzadeh < >>>>>> mich.talebza...@gmail.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Dongjoon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to your points if I may >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Do you have any reference from other official ASF-related Slack >>>>>>> channels? >>>>>>> No, I don't have any reference from other official ASF-related >>>>>>> Slack channels because I don't think that matters. However, I stand >>>>>>> corrected >>>>>>> - To be clear, I intentionally didn't refer to any specific mailing >>>>>>> list because we didn't set up any rule here yet. >>>>>>> fair enough >>>>>>> >>>>>>> going back to your original point >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ..There is a concern expressed by ASF board because recent Slack >>>>>>> activities created an isolated silo outside of ASF mailing list >>>>>>> archive... >>>>>>> Well, there are activities on Spark and indeed other open source >>>>>>> software everywhere. One way or other they do help getting community >>>>>>> (inside the user groups and other) to get interested and involved. Slack >>>>>>> happens to be one of them. >>>>>>> I am of the opinion that creating such silos is already a reality >>>>>>> and we ought to be pragmatic. Unless there is an overriding reason, we >>>>>>> should embrace it as slack can co-exist with the other mailing lists and >>>>>>> channels like linkedin etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hope this clarifies my position >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>>>>> Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead >>>>>>> Palantir Technologies Limited >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> view my Linkedin profile >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all responsibility >>>>>>> for any loss, damage or destruction of data or any other property which >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> arise from relying on this email's technical content is explicitly >>>>>>> disclaimed. The author will in no case be liable for any monetary >>>>>>> damages >>>>>>> arising from such loss, damage or destruction. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 17:28, Dongjoon Hyun <dongjoon.h...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To Mich. >>>>>>>> - Do you have any reference from other official ASF-related Slack >>>>>>>> channels? >>>>>>>> - To be clear, I intentionally didn't refer to any specific mailing >>>>>>>> list because we didn't set up any rule here yet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To Xiao. I understand what you mean. That's the reason why I added >>>>>>>> Matei from your side. >>>>>>>> > I did not see an objection from the ASF board. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is on-going discussion about the communication channels >>>>>>>> outside ASF email which is specifically concerning Slack. >>>>>>>> Please hold on any official action for this topic. We will know how >>>>>>>> to support it seamlessly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dongjoon. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:21 AM Xiao Li <gatorsm...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, Dongjoon, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The other communities (e.g., Pinot, Druid, Flink) created their >>>>>>>>> own Slack workspaces last year. I did not see an objection from the >>>>>>>>> ASF >>>>>>>>> board. At the same time, Slack workspaces are very popular and useful >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> most non-ASF open source communities. TBH, we are kind of late. I >>>>>>>>> think we >>>>>>>>> can do the same in our community? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We can follow the guide when the ASF has an official process for >>>>>>>>> ASF archiving. Since our PMC are the owner of the slack workspace, we >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> make a change based on the policy. WDYT? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Xiao >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dongjoon Hyun <dongjoon.h...@gmail.com> 于2023年3月30日周四 09:03写道： >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, Xiao and all. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (cc Matei) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please hold on the vote. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There is a concern expressed by ASF board because recent Slack >>>>>>>>>> activities created an isolated silo outside of ASF mailing list >>>>>>>>>> archive. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We need to establish a way to embrace it back to ASF archive >>>>>>>>>> before starting anything official. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bests, >>>>>>>>>> Dongjoon. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 11:32 PM Xiao Li <gatorsm...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> + @dev@spark.apache.org <dev@spark.apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is a good idea. The other Apache projects (e.g., Pinot, >>>>>>>>>>> Druid, Flink) have created their own dedicated Slack workspaces for >>>>>>>>>>> faster >>>>>>>>>>> communication. We can do the same in Apache Spark. The Slack >>>>>>>>>>> workspace will >>>>>>>>>>> be maintained by the Apache Spark PMC. I propose to initiate a vote >>>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>>> creation of a new Apache Spark Slack workspace. Does that sound >>>>>>>>>>> good? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Xiao >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh <mich.talebza...@gmail.com> 于2023年3月28日周二 >>>>>>>>>>> 07:07写道： >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I created one at slack called pyspark >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead >>>>>>>>>>>> Palantir Technologies Limited >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> view my Linkedin profile >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all >>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility for any loss, damage or destruction of data or any >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> property which may arise from relying on this email's technical >>>>>>>>>>>> content is >>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly disclaimed. The author will in no case be liable for any >>>>>>>>>>>> monetary damages arising from such loss, damage or destruction. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 at 03:52, asma zgolli <zgollia...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 good idea, I d like to join as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Le mar. 28 mars 2023 à 04:09, Winston Lai < >>>>>>>>>>>>> weiruanl...@gmail.com> a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please let us know when the channel is created. I'd like to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> join :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank You & Best Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Winston Lai >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Denny Lee <denny.g....@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2023 9:43:08 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Hyukjin Kwon <gurwls...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* keen <kee...@gmx.net>; u...@spark.apache.org < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> u...@spark.apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Slack for PySpark users >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 I think this is a great idea! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 6:24 PM Hyukjin Kwon < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gurwls...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, actually I think we should better have a slack channel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we can easily discuss with users and developers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 at 03:08, keen <kee...@gmx.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like *Slack *as communication channel for a tech >>>>>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a Slack workspace for *delta lake users* ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://go.delta.io/slack) that I enjoy a lot. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if there is something similar for PySpark >>>>>>>>>>>>>> users. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, would there be anything wrong with creating a new >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Slack workspace for PySpark users? (when explicitly mentioning >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that this is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *not* officially part of Apache Spark)? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Asma ZGOLLI >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ph.D. in Big Data - Applied Machine Learning >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Bjørn Jørgensen >>>>>> Vestre Aspehaug 4 >>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Vestre+Aspehaug+4?entry=gmail&source=g>, >>>>>> 6010 Ålesund >>>>>> Norge >>>>>> >>>>>> +47 480 94 297 >>>>>> >>>>>
