Just to be clear, if there is no strong volunteer to make the new community channel stay active, I'd probably be OK to not fork the channel. You can see a strong counter example from #spark channel in ASF. It is the place where there are only questions and promos but zero answers. I see volunteers here demanding for another channel, so I want to see us go with the most preferred way for these volunteers.
User mailing list does not go in a good shape. I hope we give another try with recent technology to see whether we can gain traction - if we fail, the user mailing list will still be there. On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 7:04 AM Jungtaek Lim <kabhwan.opensou...@gmail.com> wrote: > The number of subscribers doesn't give any meaningful value. Please look > into the number of mails being sent to the list. > > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?u...@spark.apache.org > The latest month there were more than 200 emails being sent was Feb 2022, > more than a year ago. It was more than 1k in 2016, and more than 2k in 2015 > and earlier. > Let's face the fact. User mailing list is dying, even before we start > discussion about alternative communication methods. > > Users never go with the way if it's just because PMC members (or ASF) have > preference. They are going with the way they are convenient. > > Same applies here - if ASF Slack requires a restricted invitation > mechanism then it won't work. Looks like there is a link for an invitation, > but we are also talking about the cost as well. > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INFRA/Slack+Guest+Invites > As long as we are being serious about the cost, I don't think we are going > to land in the way "users" are convenient. > > On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 4:59 AM Dongjoon Hyun <dongjoon.h...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> As Mich Talebzadeh pointed out, Apache Spark has an official Slack >> channel. >> >> > It's unavoidable if "users" prefer to use an alternative communication >> mechanism rather than the user mailing list. >> >> The following is the number of people in the official channels. >> >> - u...@spark.apache.org has 4519 subscribers. >> - dev@spark.apache.org has 3149 subscribers. >> - ASF Official Slack channel has 602 subscribers. >> >> May I ask if the users prefer to use the ASF Official Slack channel >> than the user mailing list? >> >> Dongjoon. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:10 PM Jungtaek Lim < >> kabhwan.opensou...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm reading through the page "Briefing: The Apache Way", and in the >>> section of "Open Communications", restriction of communication inside ASF >>> INFRA (mailing list) is more about code and decision-making. >>> >>> https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/#what-makes-the-apache-way-so-hard-to-define >>> >>> It's unavoidable if "users" prefer to use an alternative communication >>> mechanism rather than the user mailing list. Before Stack Overflow days, >>> there had been a meaningful number of questions around user@. It's just >>> impossible to let them go back and post to the user mailing list. >>> >>> We just need to make sure it is not the purpose of employing Slack to >>> move all discussions about developments, direction of the project, etc >>> which must happen in dev@/private@. The purpose of Slack thread here >>> does not seem to aim to serve the purpose. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 7:00 AM Mich Talebzadeh < >>> mich.talebza...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Good discussions and proposals.all around. >>>> >>>> I have used slack in anger on a customer site before. For small and >>>> medium size groups it is good and affordable. Alternatives have been >>>> suggested as well so those who like investigative search can agree and come >>>> up with a freebie one. >>>> I am inclined to agree with Bjorn that this slack has more social >>>> dimensions than the mailing list. It is akin to a sports club using >>>> WhatsApp groups for communication. Remember we were originally looking for >>>> space for webinars, including Spark on Linkedin that Denney Lee suggested. >>>> I think Slack and mailing groups can coexist happily. On a more serious >>>> note, when I joined the user group back in 2015-2016, there was a lot of >>>> traffic. Currently we hardly get many mails daily <> less than 5. So having >>>> a slack type medium may improve members participation. >>>> >>>> so +1 for me as well. >>>> >>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>> Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead >>>> Palantir Technologies Limited >>>> >>>> >>>> view my Linkedin profile >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all responsibility for >>>> any loss, damage or destruction of data or any other property which may >>>> arise from relying on this email's technical content is explicitly >>>> disclaimed. The author will in no case be liable for any monetary damages >>>> arising from such loss, damage or destruction. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 22:19, Denny Lee <denny.g....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> +1. >>>>> >>>>> To Shani’s point, there are multiple OSS projects that use the free >>>>> Slack version - top of mind include Delta, Presto, Flink, Trino, Datahub, >>>>> MLflow, etc. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 14:15 <shani.alis...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think we should remain on a free program in slack. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my option the free program is more then enough, the only down side >>>>>> is we could only see the last 90 days messages. >>>>>> >>>>>> From what I know the Airflow community (which has strong active >>>>>> community in slack) also use the free program (You can tell by the 90 >>>>>> days >>>>>> limit notice in their workspace). >>>>>> >>>>>> You can find the pricing and features comparison between the slack >>>>>> programs here <https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/pricing> . >>>>>> >>>>>> Have a great day, >>>>>> Shani >>>>>> >>>>>> On 30 Mar 2023, at 23:38, Mridul Muralidharan <mri...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for flagging the concern Dongjoon, I was not aware of the >>>>>> discussion - but I can understand the concern. >>>>>> Would be great if you or Matei could update the thread on the result >>>>>> of deliberations, once it reaches a logical consensus: before we set up >>>>>> official policy around it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Mridul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 4:23 PM Bjørn Jørgensen < >>>>>> bjornjorgen...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I like the idea of having a talk channel. It can make it easier for >>>>>>> everyone to say hello. Or to dare to ask about small or big matters that >>>>>>> you would not have dared to ask about before on mailing lists. >>>>>>> But then there is the price and what is the best for an open source >>>>>>> project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The price for using slack is expensive. >>>>>>> Right now for those that have join spark slack >>>>>>> $8.75 USD >>>>>>> 72 members >>>>>>> 1 month >>>>>>> $630 USD >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://app.slack.com/plans/T04URTRBZ1R/checkout/form?entry_point=hero_banner_upgrade_cta&s=2 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And they - slack does not have an option for open source projects. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There seems to be some alternatives for open source software. I have >>>>>>> not tried it. >>>>>>> Like https://www.rocket.chat/blog/slack-open-source-alternatives >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <image.png> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> rocket chat is open source https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> tor. 30. mar. 2023 kl. 18:54 skrev Mich Talebzadeh < >>>>>>> mich.talebza...@gmail.com>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Dongjoon >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to your points if I may >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Do you have any reference from other official ASF-related Slack >>>>>>>> channels? >>>>>>>> No, I don't have any reference from other official ASF-related >>>>>>>> Slack channels because I don't think that matters. However, I stand >>>>>>>> corrected >>>>>>>> - To be clear, I intentionally didn't refer to any specific mailing >>>>>>>> list because we didn't set up any rule here yet. >>>>>>>> fair enough >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> going back to your original point >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ..There is a concern expressed by ASF board because recent Slack >>>>>>>> activities created an isolated silo outside of ASF mailing list >>>>>>>> archive... >>>>>>>> Well, there are activities on Spark and indeed other open source >>>>>>>> software everywhere. One way or other they do help getting community >>>>>>>> (inside the user groups and other) to get interested and involved. >>>>>>>> Slack >>>>>>>> happens to be one of them. >>>>>>>> I am of the opinion that creating such silos is already a reality >>>>>>>> and we ought to be pragmatic. Unless there is an overriding reason, we >>>>>>>> should embrace it as slack can co-exist with the other mailing lists >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> channels like linkedin etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hope this clarifies my position >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>>>>>> Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead >>>>>>>> Palantir Technologies Limited >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> view my Linkedin profile >>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all responsibility >>>>>>>> for any loss, damage or destruction of data or any other property >>>>>>>> which may >>>>>>>> arise from relying on this email's technical content is explicitly >>>>>>>> disclaimed. The author will in no case be liable for any monetary >>>>>>>> damages >>>>>>>> arising from such loss, damage or destruction. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 17:28, Dongjoon Hyun < >>>>>>>> dongjoon.h...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To Mich. >>>>>>>>> - Do you have any reference from other official ASF-related Slack >>>>>>>>> channels? >>>>>>>>> - To be clear, I intentionally didn't refer to any specific >>>>>>>>> mailing list because we didn't set up any rule here yet. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To Xiao. I understand what you mean. That's the reason why I added >>>>>>>>> Matei from your side. >>>>>>>>> > I did not see an objection from the ASF board. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There is on-going discussion about the communication channels >>>>>>>>> outside ASF email which is specifically concerning Slack. >>>>>>>>> Please hold on any official action for this topic. We will know >>>>>>>>> how to support it seamlessly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dongjoon. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:21 AM Xiao Li <gatorsm...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, Dongjoon, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The other communities (e.g., Pinot, Druid, Flink) created their >>>>>>>>>> own Slack workspaces last year. I did not see an objection from the >>>>>>>>>> ASF >>>>>>>>>> board. At the same time, Slack workspaces are very popular and >>>>>>>>>> useful in >>>>>>>>>> most non-ASF open source communities. TBH, we are kind of late. I >>>>>>>>>> think we >>>>>>>>>> can do the same in our community? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We can follow the guide when the ASF has an official process for >>>>>>>>>> ASF archiving. Since our PMC are the owner of the slack workspace, >>>>>>>>>> we can >>>>>>>>>> make a change based on the policy. WDYT? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Xiao >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dongjoon Hyun <dongjoon.h...@gmail.com> 于2023年3月30日周四 09:03写道： >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, Xiao and all. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (cc Matei) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please hold on the vote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There is a concern expressed by ASF board because recent Slack >>>>>>>>>>> activities created an isolated silo outside of ASF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> archive. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We need to establish a way to embrace it back to ASF archive >>>>>>>>>>> before starting anything official. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bests, >>>>>>>>>>> Dongjoon. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 11:32 PM Xiao Li <gatorsm...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> + @dev@spark.apache.org <dev@spark.apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is a good idea. The other Apache projects (e.g., Pinot, >>>>>>>>>>>> Druid, Flink) have created their own dedicated Slack workspaces >>>>>>>>>>>> for faster >>>>>>>>>>>> communication. We can do the same in Apache Spark. The Slack >>>>>>>>>>>> workspace will >>>>>>>>>>>> be maintained by the Apache Spark PMC. I propose to initiate a >>>>>>>>>>>> vote for the >>>>>>>>>>>> creation of a new Apache Spark Slack workspace. Does that sound >>>>>>>>>>>> good? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Xiao >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh <mich.talebza...@gmail.com> 于2023年3月28日周二 >>>>>>>>>>>> 07:07写道： >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I created one at slack called pyspark >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead >>>>>>>>>>>>> Palantir Technologies Limited >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> view my Linkedin profile >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all >>>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility for any loss, damage or destruction of data or any >>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> property which may arise from relying on this email's technical >>>>>>>>>>>>> content is >>>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly disclaimed. The author will in no case be liable for >>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>> monetary damages arising from such loss, damage or destruction. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 at 03:52, asma zgolli < >>>>>>>>>>>>> zgollia...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 good idea, I d like to join as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le mar. 28 mars 2023 à 04:09, Winston Lai < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> weiruanl...@gmail.com> a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please let us know when the channel is created. I'd like to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> join :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank You & Best Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Winston Lai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Denny Lee <denny.g....@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2023 9:43:08 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Hyukjin Kwon <gurwls...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* keen <kee...@gmx.net>; u...@spark.apache.org < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> u...@spark.apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Slack for PySpark users >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 I think this is a great idea! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 6:24 PM Hyukjin Kwon < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gurwls...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, actually I think we should better have a slack channel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we can easily discuss with users and developers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 at 03:08, keen <kee...@gmx.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like *Slack *as communication channel for a tech >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a Slack workspace for *delta lake users* ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://go.delta.io/slack) that I enjoy a lot. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if there is something similar for PySpark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, would there be anything wrong with creating a new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Slack workspace for PySpark users? (when explicitly mentioning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that this is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *not* officially part of Apache Spark)? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Asma ZGOLLI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ph.D. in Big Data - Applied Machine Learning >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Bjørn Jørgensen >>>>>>> Vestre Aspehaug 4 >>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Vestre+Aspehaug+4?entry=gmail&source=g>, >>>>>>> 6010 Ålesund >>>>>>> Norge >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +47 480 94 297 >>>>>>> >>>>>>
