Shall we summarize the discussion so far? To sum up, "ASF Slack" vs "3rd-party Slack" was the real background to initiate this thread instead of "Slack" vs "Mailing list"?
If ASF Slack provides what you need, is it better than creating a new Slack channel? Or, is there another reason for us to create a new Slack channel? Dongjoon. On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 3:27 PM Mich Talebzadeh <mich.talebza...@gmail.com> wrote: > I agree, whatever individual sentiments are. > > Mich Talebzadeh, > Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead > Palantir Technologies Limited > > > view my Linkedin profile > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> > > > https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh > > > > *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all responsibility for any > loss, damage or destruction of data or any other property which may arise > from relying on this email's technical content is explicitly disclaimed. > The author will in no case be liable for any monetary damages arising from > such loss, damage or destruction. > > > > > On Mon, 3 Apr 2023 at 23:21, Jungtaek Lim <kabhwan.opensou...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Just to be clear, if there is no strong volunteer to make the new >> community channel stay active, I'd probably be OK to not fork the channel. >> You can see a strong counter example from #spark channel in ASF. It is the >> place where there are only questions and promos but zero answers. I see >> volunteers here demanding for another channel, so I want to see us go with >> the most preferred way for these volunteers. >> >> User mailing list does not go in a good shape. I hope we give another try >> with recent technology to see whether we can gain traction - if we fail, >> the user mailing list will still be there. >> >> On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 7:04 AM Jungtaek Lim <kabhwan.opensou...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> The number of subscribers doesn't give any meaningful value. Please look >>> into the number of mails being sent to the list. >>> >>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?u...@spark.apache.org >>> The latest month there were more than 200 emails being sent was Feb >>> 2022, more than a year ago. It was more than 1k in 2016, and more than 2k >>> in 2015 and earlier. >>> Let's face the fact. User mailing list is dying, even before we start >>> discussion about alternative communication methods. >>> >>> Users never go with the way if it's just because PMC members (or ASF) >>> have preference. They are going with the way they are convenient. >>> >>> Same applies here - if ASF Slack requires a restricted invitation >>> mechanism then it won't work. Looks like there is a link for an invitation, >>> but we are also talking about the cost as well. >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INFRA/Slack+Guest+Invites >>> As long as we are being serious about the cost, I don't think we are >>> going to land in the way "users" are convenient. >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 4:59 AM Dongjoon Hyun <dongjoon.h...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> As Mich Talebzadeh pointed out, Apache Spark has an official Slack >>>> channel. >>>> >>>> > It's unavoidable if "users" prefer to use an alternative >>>> communication mechanism rather than the user mailing list. >>>> >>>> The following is the number of people in the official channels. >>>> >>>> - u...@spark.apache.org has 4519 subscribers. >>>> - dev@spark.apache.org has 3149 subscribers. >>>> - ASF Official Slack channel has 602 subscribers. >>>> >>>> May I ask if the users prefer to use the ASF Official Slack channel >>>> than the user mailing list? >>>> >>>> Dongjoon. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:10 PM Jungtaek Lim < >>>> kabhwan.opensou...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm reading through the page "Briefing: The Apache Way", and in the >>>>> section of "Open Communications", restriction of communication inside ASF >>>>> INFRA (mailing list) is more about code and decision-making. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/#what-makes-the-apache-way-so-hard-to-define >>>>> >>>>> It's unavoidable if "users" prefer to use an alternative communication >>>>> mechanism rather than the user mailing list. Before Stack Overflow days, >>>>> there had been a meaningful number of questions around user@. It's >>>>> just impossible to let them go back and post to the user mailing list. >>>>> >>>>> We just need to make sure it is not the purpose of employing Slack to >>>>> move all discussions about developments, direction of the project, etc >>>>> which must happen in dev@/private@. The purpose of Slack thread here >>>>> does not seem to aim to serve the purpose. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 7:00 AM Mich Talebzadeh < >>>>> mich.talebza...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Good discussions and proposals.all around. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have used slack in anger on a customer site before. For small and >>>>>> medium size groups it is good and affordable. Alternatives have been >>>>>> suggested as well so those who like investigative search can agree and >>>>>> come >>>>>> up with a freebie one. >>>>>> I am inclined to agree with Bjorn that this slack has more social >>>>>> dimensions than the mailing list. It is akin to a sports club using >>>>>> WhatsApp groups for communication. Remember we were originally looking >>>>>> for >>>>>> space for webinars, including Spark on Linkedin that Denney Lee >>>>>> suggested. >>>>>> I think Slack and mailing groups can coexist happily. On a more serious >>>>>> note, when I joined the user group back in 2015-2016, there was a lot of >>>>>> traffic. Currently we hardly get many mails daily <> less than 5. So >>>>>> having >>>>>> a slack type medium may improve members participation. >>>>>> >>>>>> so +1 for me as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>>>> Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead >>>>>> Palantir Technologies Limited >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> view my Linkedin profile >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all responsibility >>>>>> for any loss, damage or destruction of data or any other property which >>>>>> may >>>>>> arise from relying on this email's technical content is explicitly >>>>>> disclaimed. The author will in no case be liable for any monetary damages >>>>>> arising from such loss, damage or destruction. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 22:19, Denny Lee <denny.g....@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> +1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To Shani’s point, there are multiple OSS projects that use the free >>>>>>> Slack version - top of mind include Delta, Presto, Flink, Trino, >>>>>>> Datahub, >>>>>>> MLflow, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 14:15 <shani.alis...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think we should remain on a free program in slack. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In my option the free program is more then enough, the only down >>>>>>>> side is we could only see the last 90 days messages. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From what I know the Airflow community (which has strong active >>>>>>>> community in slack) also use the free program (You can tell by the 90 >>>>>>>> days >>>>>>>> limit notice in their workspace). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can find the pricing and features comparison between the slack >>>>>>>> programs here <https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/pricing> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Have a great day, >>>>>>>> Shani >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 30 Mar 2023, at 23:38, Mridul Muralidharan <mri...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for flagging the concern Dongjoon, I was not aware of the >>>>>>>> discussion - but I can understand the concern. >>>>>>>> Would be great if you or Matei could update the thread on the >>>>>>>> result of deliberations, once it reaches a logical consensus: before >>>>>>>> we set >>>>>>>> up official policy around it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Mridul >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 4:23 PM Bjørn Jørgensen < >>>>>>>> bjornjorgen...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I like the idea of having a talk channel. It can make it easier >>>>>>>>> for everyone to say hello. Or to dare to ask about small or big >>>>>>>>> matters >>>>>>>>> that you would not have dared to ask about before on mailing lists. >>>>>>>>> But then there is the price and what is the best for an open >>>>>>>>> source project. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The price for using slack is expensive. >>>>>>>>> Right now for those that have join spark slack >>>>>>>>> $8.75 USD >>>>>>>>> 72 members >>>>>>>>> 1 month >>>>>>>>> $630 USD >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://app.slack.com/plans/T04URTRBZ1R/checkout/form?entry_point=hero_banner_upgrade_cta&s=2 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And they - slack does not have an option for open source >>>>>>>>> projects. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There seems to be some alternatives for open source software. I >>>>>>>>> have not tried it. >>>>>>>>> Like https://www.rocket.chat/blog/slack-open-source-alternatives >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <image.png> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> rocket chat is open source >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> tor. 30. mar. 2023 kl. 18:54 skrev Mich Talebzadeh < >>>>>>>>> mich.talebza...@gmail.com>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Dongjoon >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to your points if I may >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - Do you have any reference from other official ASF-related Slack >>>>>>>>>> channels? >>>>>>>>>> No, I don't have any reference from other official ASF-related >>>>>>>>>> Slack channels because I don't think that matters. However, I stand >>>>>>>>>> corrected >>>>>>>>>> - To be clear, I intentionally didn't refer to any specific >>>>>>>>>> mailing list because we didn't set up any rule here yet. >>>>>>>>>> fair enough >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> going back to your original point >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ..There is a concern expressed by ASF board because recent Slack >>>>>>>>>> activities created an isolated silo outside of ASF mailing list >>>>>>>>>> archive... >>>>>>>>>> Well, there are activities on Spark and indeed other open source >>>>>>>>>> software everywhere. One way or other they do help getting community >>>>>>>>>> (inside the user groups and other) to get interested and involved. >>>>>>>>>> Slack >>>>>>>>>> happens to be one of them. >>>>>>>>>> I am of the opinion that creating such silos is already a reality >>>>>>>>>> and we ought to be pragmatic. Unless there is an overriding reason, >>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>> should embrace it as slack can co-exist with the other mailing lists >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> channels like linkedin etc. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hope this clarifies my position >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>>>>>>>> Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead >>>>>>>>>> Palantir Technologies Limited >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> view my Linkedin profile >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all >>>>>>>>>> responsibility for any loss, damage or destruction of data or any >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> property which may arise from relying on this email's technical >>>>>>>>>> content is >>>>>>>>>> explicitly disclaimed. The author will in no case be liable for any >>>>>>>>>> monetary damages arising from such loss, damage or destruction. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 17:28, Dongjoon Hyun < >>>>>>>>>> dongjoon.h...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To Mich. >>>>>>>>>>> - Do you have any reference from other official ASF-related >>>>>>>>>>> Slack channels? >>>>>>>>>>> - To be clear, I intentionally didn't refer to any specific >>>>>>>>>>> mailing list because we didn't set up any rule here yet. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To Xiao. I understand what you mean. That's the reason why I >>>>>>>>>>> added Matei from your side. >>>>>>>>>>> > I did not see an objection from the ASF board. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There is on-going discussion about the communication channels >>>>>>>>>>> outside ASF email which is specifically concerning Slack. >>>>>>>>>>> Please hold on any official action for this topic. We will know >>>>>>>>>>> how to support it seamlessly. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dongjoon. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:21 AM Xiao Li <gatorsm...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, Dongjoon, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The other communities (e.g., Pinot, Druid, Flink) created their >>>>>>>>>>>> own Slack workspaces last year. I did not see an objection from >>>>>>>>>>>> the ASF >>>>>>>>>>>> board. At the same time, Slack workspaces are very popular and >>>>>>>>>>>> useful in >>>>>>>>>>>> most non-ASF open source communities. TBH, we are kind of late. I >>>>>>>>>>>> think we >>>>>>>>>>>> can do the same in our community? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We can follow the guide when the ASF has an official process >>>>>>>>>>>> for ASF archiving. Since our PMC are the owner of the slack >>>>>>>>>>>> workspace, we >>>>>>>>>>>> can make a change based on the policy. WDYT? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Xiao >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dongjoon Hyun <dongjoon.h...@gmail.com> 于2023年3月30日周四 09:03写道： >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, Xiao and all. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (cc Matei) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please hold on the vote. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a concern expressed by ASF board because recent Slack >>>>>>>>>>>>> activities created an isolated silo outside of ASF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> archive. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We need to establish a way to embrace it back to ASF archive >>>>>>>>>>>>> before starting anything official. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bests, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dongjoon. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 11:32 PM Xiao Li <gatorsm...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> + @dev@spark.apache.org <dev@spark.apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a good idea. The other Apache projects (e.g., Pinot, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Druid, Flink) have created their own dedicated Slack workspaces >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for faster >>>>>>>>>>>>>> communication. We can do the same in Apache Spark. The Slack >>>>>>>>>>>>>> workspace will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be maintained by the Apache Spark PMC. I propose to initiate a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> creation of a new Apache Spark Slack workspace. Does that sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>> good? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Xiao >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh <mich.talebza...@gmail.com> 于2023年3月28日周二 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07:07写道： >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created one at slack called pyspark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lead Solutions Architect/Engineering Lead >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palantir Technologies Limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> view my Linkedin profile >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Disclaimer:* Use it at your own risk. Any and all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility for any loss, damage or destruction of data or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> property which may arise from relying on this email's technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly disclaimed. The author will in no case be liable for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monetary damages arising from such loss, damage or destruction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 at 03:52, asma zgolli < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zgollia...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 good idea, I d like to join as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le mar. 28 mars 2023 à 04:09, Winston Lai < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weiruanl...@gmail.com> a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please let us know when the channel is created. I'd like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to join :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank You & Best Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Winston Lai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Denny Lee <denny.g....@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2023 9:43:08 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Hyukjin Kwon <gurwls...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* keen <kee...@gmx.net>; u...@spark.apache.org < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> u...@spark.apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Slack for PySpark users >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 I think this is a great idea! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 6:24 PM Hyukjin Kwon < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gurwls...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, actually I think we should better have a slack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> channel so we can easily discuss with users and developers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 at 03:08, keen <kee...@gmx.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like *Slack *as communication channel for a tech >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a Slack workspace for *delta lake users* ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://go.delta.io/slack) that I enjoy a lot. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if there is something similar for PySpark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If not, would there be anything wrong with creating a new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Slack workspace for PySpark users? (when explicitly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioning that this is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *not* officially part of Apache Spark)? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Asma ZGOLLI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ph.D. in Big Data - Applied Machine Learning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Bjørn Jørgensen >>>>>>>>> Vestre Aspehaug 4 >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Vestre+Aspehaug+4?entry=gmail&source=g>, >>>>>>>>> 6010 Ålesund >>>>>>>>> Norge >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +47 480 94 297 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
