Personally I am not for any extra process :-). So if the pTLP process is an extra burden at this point lets not go there.
Sanjiva. On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Ross Gardler <[email protected]>wrote: > Noah expresses it the way I see it. The purpose of taking the interim step > (which was intended to be very short) was to avoid the IPMC blocking any > useful discussion through sheer size. Since Stratos is just a release away > from graduation it would seem a waste for *this* community to discuss pTLP > when it can no longer benefit from it (yes trademark search is needed but > that's usually a couple of days work). > > Of course, the speed of graduation is indicative of the fact that this was > an ideal candidate for pTLP so we have that as a useful data point to take > back to the IPMC (especially if the first release from this project is > approved by the IPMC without change). > > Having said all that, I am not a mentor and more importantly I am not an > active member of the community. My only intention is to say I (personally) > no longer have any expectations with respect to the pTLP experiment within > this project. It's up to the community first and mentors second to decide > which path to take. > > Ross > > Ross Gardler (@rgardler) > Senior Technology Evangelist > Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc. > A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation > > > > > > On 11 August 2013 19:10, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: > >> My original understanding was that the podling would start as a pTLP. >> That "pTLP" was a category of podling, and graduating would be the point >> where we remove the "p". It does seem a little strange to go from podling >> -> pTLP -> TLP. I think we started out this way to expedite getting started >> with Stratos. (Correct me if I'm wrong. Might be missing/forgetting >> context.) But perhaps for the next attempt, we go straight to pTLP? >> >> >> On 8 August 2013 09:32, ant elder <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Heh, well that wasn't quite the response i was expecting. >>> >>> From all the previous discussions around pTLPs we know there are some >>> who really don't like the idea, i don't want this to turn into another big >>> argument so I've been trying to think of ways this could happen with >>> minimum of fuss. In the email at the start of this thread a suggestion was >>> "propose an interim step in the incubation process. e.g. start as a >>> podling, move to pTLP when certain criteria are met". I like that, but one >>> problem is there is some baggage around the word "pTLP". >>> >>> A problem with starting the pTLP experiment from a podling is always >>> going to be whats the difference between becoming a pTLP or just >>> graduating, so a better understanding of that will be helpful (for me >>> anyway) - is there something that has been done already since Stratos has >>> been a podling that now means a pTLP makes less sense? One of those things >>> might be the trademark search, but thats not yet been done for Stratos. >>> >>> Doing a release is being discussed but thats one of the more problematic >>> activities while in the Incubator and can potentially drag on and on, so >>> finding a way out before that would be good. Either via a pTLP or just >>> trying for graduation and arguing that the high number of existing ASF >>> people involved means the release will still be properly vetted even >>> outside of the Incubator. But again that just brings me back to whats the >>> difference to becoming a pTLP or just graduating? >>> >>> ...ant >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Ross Gardler < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> The whole point of using Stratos as a test case for the probationary >>>> TLP idea was to provide a vehicle for those who felt this was viable route >>>> to incubation to demonstrate how it would work. Specifically it was >>>> intended to be an opportunity to start to answer the concerns that I, and >>>> others, raised about skipping the IPMC altogether. >>>> >>>> However, as Ant and Suresh point out, in the more than six weeks since >>>> I summarized the discussions during the proposal phase the Stratos project >>>> has done almost all it needs to graduate. >>>> >>>> I agree with Ant that at this point it makes more sense for mentors to >>>> spend their time finishing incubation and graduate the project as a >>>> standard podling. >>>> >>>> Chris and anyone else who support the pTLP idea can take the outline >>>> process I pulled together from our earlier discussions (summarized at the >>>> start of this thread) and apply them to some other project as their time >>>> allows. It is too late to do it here. Stratos should not have to go through >>>> the pain of defining a new process unless it brings benefit to the project >>>> itself. >>>> >>>> Ross >>>> >>>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler) >>>> Senior Technology Evangelist >>>> Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc. >>>> A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7 August 2013 13:16, Suresh Marru <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2013, at 3:46 PM, ant elder <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Greg Stein <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> > Thanks, Ant. I'm on a phone right now, and have not read the >>>>> background. (so, terse response). But the dev@ list is fine. In my >>>>> mind, a probationary TLP is a conversation between a community and the >>>>> Board. And dev@ is the community, so is the best place to discuss >>>>> before bringing an idea to the Board. >>>>> > >>>>> > On Aug 6, 2013 1:10 AM, "ant elder" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> > I was wondering if the Stratos dev list is the best place to be >>>>> > discussing this, there are probably interested people who aren't >>>>> > subscribed or following here, though maybe general@incubatorwouldn't >>>>> > be ideal either. I've cc'd Chris and Greg in this email so they at >>>>> > least know its here as they've expressed interest in the past. >>>>> > >>>>> > Ok lets do it here then. >>>>> > >>>>> > One of the things i'm stuggling with at the moment is what would be >>>>> the differences with Stratos becoming a pTLP compared with just >>>>> graduating. >>>>> > >>>>> > Looking at graduating, the Incubator minimum graduation requirements >>>>> are documented here: >>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Minimum+Graduation+Requirements >>>>> > >>>>> > With Stratos having so many of its contributors be existing ASF >>>>> committers, PMC members, or ASF members it would be easy to argue for >>>>> automatically ticking off many of those requirements and then not much is >>>>> left to do on the graduation requirements list. The main one would be >>>>> checking the "Stratos" name for trademark issues, eg someone needs to go >>>>> through: http://incubator.apache.org/guides/names.html. Once thats >>>>> done then a regular resolution for graduation could be submitted to the >>>>> board. >>>>> > >>>>> > I know that wouldn't so much help progress the pTLP topic, is that a >>>>> goal of Stratos here? >>>>> > >>>>> > …ant >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ant, >>>>> >>>>> This is exactly I am having the trouble getting my head around. I am >>>>> seeing this as two separate issues, one furthering the topic of pTLP with >>>>> Stratos as the use case. This will be a good guinea pig project with a >>>>> wealth of exiting ASF and PMC members/committers. Second quick leap into >>>>> graduation, which I agree is only few steps away. >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> I see the project is doing very well in engaging the community, doing >>>>> lot of information sharing and conducting business in mailing lists and >>>>> jira. Either pTLP or graduation, the outstanding tasks I am looking >>>>> forward to see the progress: getting a release right with properly >>>>> formulated license and notice files (especially for convenience binaries >>>>> which bundle third party dependencies) and see working progress in >>>>> removing >>>>> dependence on ws02 repositories. I see now a big list of dependencies are >>>>> not coming from maven central but from wso2 repos this is good to avoid. >>>>> Essentially the parent pom [1] should be able to point to apache parent >>>>> and >>>>> remove all the repos here. >>>>> >>>>> Suresh >>>>> >>>>> [1] - >>>>> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-stratos.git;a=blob_plain;f=pom.xml;hb=HEAD >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Noah Slater >> https://twitter.com/nslater >> >> > -- Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com/ email: [email protected]; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880 | +1 650 265 8311 blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
