On Jan 15, 2008 9:23 PM, Frank W. Zammetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Martin Cooper wrote: > > On Jan 14, 2008 10:40 PM, Frank W. Zammetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Don't forget, I'm not a committer, I'm not an > >> Apache member in any way, so me casting a non-binding +1 vote means > >> squat other than "yeah, one extra set of eyes has looked at it and > >> thinks it looks good". > >> > > > > Oh, I don't think that follows at all. Most of supporting a release is > not > > making commits. It's helping folks on the lists, submitting bug reports > and > > patches, updating documentation, and all manner of other things. Those > are > > things that any contributor can do, not just committers, so I'm not sure > I > > understand why you believe non-committers would get a "bye" on their +1 > > votes. > > That's a fair question, but I have an answer for it. Of course you do. If you didn't, I'd think you'd gone on vacation or something. ;-) So you're saying that if a non-committer thinks a release looks OK, a +1 says just that and means nothing more, whereas if a committer thinks it looks OK, they can't vote the same way unless they're committing to support it, and therefore cannot contribute to the binding vote count required for a release. But why would the non-committer vote in such an inconsistent way? Surely the appropriate thing to do would be to vote +0, which is what the committer would have to do in order to indicate that they thought the release looked OK but were not in a position to support it. In any case, I'm going to sign out of this discussion now, as I have enough to do keeping up with my day job, and don't feel the need to further defend my right to vote +1 as I feel appropriate. -- Martin Cooper > Put simply, I feel > that anyone officially made a member of a project team has accepted a > greater level of responsibility than someone in the larger user community. > > In the same way that if I participate in a Microsoft beta program, and I > tell them that the beta looks solid, that doesn't imply anything about > any support I'm willing, ready and able to contribute, it's the same in > a community-driven project. I may still be willing and able to write > Wiki entries about the product, help polish docs, answer questions on > mailing lists, things like that, but me telling them the build looks > good doesn't imply I'm going to be around to do any of that because my > responsibility begins and ends with validating the beta. It's different > for a member of the development team: it's a higher level of > responsibility. > > If this wasn't all implicitly true, what would ever be the difference > between a binding and non-binding vote? Wouldn't they be relegated to > the same level of meaning? Clearly binding votes carry more weight, but > on what basis? I'd argue at least part of it is that implied > responsibility, that implied willingness to support the release, which a > non-binding vote doesn't carry, and I think rightly so. > > Now, I do however think that in practice it's probably true that most > non-members that take the time to vote also take the time to provide > support. Speaking for myself, I've certainly answered my share of > questions on the lists, offered help many times, have contributed to the > Wiki and have supplied some patches and enhancements, so it's pretty > clear *for me* that even a non-binding vote has meaning, some implied > responsibility. This is probably the case for most voters, but I don't > believe there is the same implied expectation (a word I've hesitated to > use previously) that there is for binding votes, it's just good > community when it happens. > > > Martin Cooper > > Frank > > -- > Frank W. Zammetti > Author of "Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology" > (2006, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-695-1) > and "JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects" > (2007, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-816-4) > and "Practical DWR 2 Projects" > (2008, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-941-1) > Java Web Parts - http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net > Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
