Hi Jacqueline,
here are some answers and comments:
ad "What about level 10 on export to Microsoft Word documents?":
Level 10 is lost on export to Microsoft Word file formats. But, this
is an already existing problem. OOo Writer has already 10 outline
level - see Tools - Outline Numbering. This is resulting from the
fact, that OOo support 10 levels for list styles, while Microsoft Word
only supports 9 levels.
ad "Is new attribute outline level needed at paragraph":
Having this new attribute also at paragraphs has the following reasons:
- The attribute already exists in the OpenDocument file format at
paragraphs, which are headings - it's text:outline-level. In the
OpenDocument file format this attribute only exist at paragraphs and
*not* at paragraph styles. Currently, the attribute only exists
indirectly at the paragraph. But, we (the iTeam) think, it is natural
to support this attribute directly at the paragraph.
- Also usable from users, which don't care/know styles.
- For consistency: Attributes are in general available at the
paragraph style and the paragraph
ad "Visiualize outline numbering in paragraph style dialog and
paragraph dialog"
This is a good point and a sensible improvement. I will try to
persuade the iTeam, to include this information about the outline level.
ad "suggestion a)"
Also a good point. I will discuss it with the iTeam
ad "suggestion b)"
Also a good point. But, why do we need such search, if all headings
are visible in the navigator?
ad "Impact on outline numbering"
The current outline numbering isn't planned to be changed. There is a
special list style, called outline style, and to each of its list
levels a paragraph style can be assigned.
But, this the new attribute you've got the freedom to define another
list style for the numbering of headings. You can assign this list
style to paragraph styles, which have different outline levels set,
and you can apply these paragraph style to the paragraphs. What's
additional needed is that you have to move the paragraph to the
intended list level.
ad "Impact on TOC"
This is a missing feature in OOo Writer. The insufficiency here is,
that currently no link target exists for such TOC items. I don't know
of any planned change in this area.
ad "Impact on pdf-export"
Do you mean the bookmarks for the TOC entries created by additional
added styles? If yes, then it seems to be related to the previous point.
ad "Impact on Masterdocument creation"
Yes, this should be a feature, that should be included. I will discuss
this feature in the iTeam.
Thank you for your feedback.
Regards, Oliver.
--
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Sun Microsystems GmbH Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
Nagelsweg 55 Software Engineer - OpenOffice.org/StarOffice
20097 Hamburg
Germany
http://www.sun.de mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jacqueline Rahemipour schrieb:
Hi all,
at [EMAIL PROTECTED] the spec "Introduction of an outline level
attribute" was mentioned by Sophie and I hope this list is the right
place to ask some questions about the spec and maybe start a small
discussion.
Related links:
http://fr.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=70748
http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/make_everything_as_simple_as
http://specs.openoffice.org/writer/numbering/OutlineLevel.odt
I read the spec very accurately already some time ago, as I have to deal
with questions about outlines and styles nearly daily to solve the
problems with large documents of my own and of my customers. My hope is,
that the planned feature improves the possibilities of using an
individual outline numbering - but about numberings there is not much
described in the spec...
I have several questions / comments:
- page 6 / 8: Regarding the implementation in MSO (I checked MSO 2003
and MSO 2007 beta2), I'm wondering about the planned number of outline
levels. MSO provides only the options "none" and levels 1-9. What shall
happen with a used level 10 in OOo when exporting the file to the
doc-format?
- Do we really want to have this feature in single paragraphs? I think,
this is really confusing for users and it would be acceptable to create
a new paragraph style, if needed. For this question I read Matthias blog
and I agree, that features must be easy to use and not every user is
experienced in using styles. This is true if we are talking about page
styles and easy workflows (e.g. "first page different"), but if someone
works in a large document and needs a special structure of headings, it
is highly recommended and should be acceptable to learn how to use a
paragraph style. For compatibility reasons (only import) this could be
handled by automatically creating a new paragraph style (same as page
styles at the moment).
- page 9, line 106ff: Not only the string "outline numbering" should be
displayed, but the exact outline level.
- My general problem with this feature is the lack of visibility of the
used/changed outline levels. Such a complex option is difficult to
understand, especially if this attribute is also added to paragraphs
(and not only to paragraph styles). I cannot imagine, how it should
work, that all paragraphs which are headings are listed in the
navigator. It must be clear, where the attribute is set - in the
outline, in a paragraph style or in a paragraph.
Therefore two suggestions:
a) show the outline level in the status bar (exactly we have it in
lists), maybe in the form: "Level 1: outline" (visible only if outline
level is >0)
b) add the attribut outline level to the attibutes search in the
find&replace function
Some comments about the impact on other features of OOo:
- Impact on outline numbering:
ATM it is a big problem in OOo, that only one paragraph style can be
applied to an outline level, but not because there is no other way to
get this paragraphs easily in the TOC (that is already possible and easy
enough), mostly to have a special outline numbering. The only workaround
I found for this is using a not used outline level and changing the
numbering for that - but that is for several reasons not really
satisfying). I often need the possibility to use a numbered heading and
a hierachical dependend paragraph style with the same numbering - but
the numbering is not passed from the linked style. Beside the missing
feature in OOo this is the actual behaviour in MSO and causes many
import problems. So will the new attribute be a solution for that (maybe
add an option "include in outline numbering")? - This would be really
important.
Impact on TOC:
ATM additionally applied styles in TOC are not included when using
hyperlinks for some levels. Will this change?
Impact on pdf-export:
ATM additionally added styles are not exported as bookmarks in
pdf-export. What will happen, if the new attribute outline level is used?
Impact on Masterdocuments:
If a new masterdocument is created from an existing text document you
now have to choose a paragraph style for generating the subdocuments -
will it be possible to choose an outline level?
Sorry for the long email - but this feature is really important for me...
Regards,
Jacqueline
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