I did start writing stuff, but was doing in the html. Seems that I was
doing wrong because it is unclear how to do it.

I consider even this email a contribution btw, discussing possible ways to
improve it is a good start to better things.

If we don't have an integration and a way to do PR's at the moment I think
we should fix that. Having it in a personal github account is not ideal.

Even though I respect your opinion I still would like to hear more thoughts.

Thank you.






On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:44 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau <[email protected]>
wrote:

> 2017-03-10 12:38 GMT+01:00 Ivan Junckes Filho <[email protected]>:
>
> > As far as I understood JBake is a tool to generate websites (deal with
> > html, css etc.), what I am proposing is a tool to make the documentation
> > process friendly without caring with html, css, website structure etc.
> >
> >
> Yes but point of using jbake is to be adoc based. You don't care about the
> css, html etc... using it, was one of the criteria.
>
>
> > We don't need to remove JBake from the website, but for documentation, we
> > can use a tool that is proven to work and make it simple.
> >
> >
> Matches jbake definition to be honest.
>
>
> > I don't know where SEO has anything to do with this sorry, but the
> content
> > in gitbook is indexed on google if that it what you mean.
> >
> >
> Search Engine Optimization, google integration if you pefer ;)
>
>
> > Well, just my suggestion, I was willing to help on that.
> >
> >
> Did you try contributing on current website - sounds like not? assume we
> have a github proxy and you can do a PR, do you miss really anything? You
> can *test* (it isoutdated now but to test it is ok, or if you want i can
> sync it up for testing purposes) on
> https://github.com/rmannibucau/site-tomee-ng
>
> gitbook gain is mainly about the infra and @ASF we have it provided with
> standard choices so only the tool and interactions are the remaining parts
> and jbake matches all your criteria for the tool and we can make github
> integrated so really not seeing what could miss and justify yet another
> switch.
>
>
> > I would like to hear more thoughts from other developers if possible.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:10 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> [email protected]
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > 2017-03-10 12:02 GMT+01:00 Ivan Junckes Filho <[email protected]>:
> > >
> > > > Hi guys, thank you for the feedback.
> > > >
> > > > What would bring gitbook which would make it better we don't have
> > > already?
> > > > 1 - Documentation is a very tough thing to keep up to date, so we
> don't
> > > > want to make it hard for people to do it. What I see in gitbook is a
> > very
> > > > straightforward way to update it and make it organized regardless of
> a
> > > > website.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Can you go one step further and say how compared to what we have it
> will
> > > help (it is the same kind of infra).
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2 - We'll have a tool that is specialized in this, websites need to
> be
> > > > redesigned over time and we don't want to be worrying about migrating
> > all
> > > > the docs like we need to do now, from the old to the new.
> > > >
> > >
> > > JBake as well so once again not sure the gain
> > >
> > >
> > > > 3 - The tool is completely integrated with github, we'll have a
> project
> > > > inside the github with folders that we could even separate per
> > language,
> > > > would be useful for example if someone with time could go there and
> > > create
> > > > a french folder and translate the docs.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Here again we can do it with jbake but have to admit I wonder if this
> > > someone exist after all the round trips and tries we got on the doc so
> I
> > > would prefer to take the opposite approad: if someone asks to translate
> > the
> > > whole website we'll ensure it is setup than setting it up to nothing
> now.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 4 - We can easily have doc versioning, and make sure from now on when
> > we
> > > > have a new feature we add it to the doc.
> > > >
> > >
> > > We can but decided to not do it cause majors arent really breaking.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 5 - Authoring is tracked by github itself and can be shared just like
> > > code
> > > >
> > >
> > > Same with svn today and once again no blocker to have a proxy on
> github.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 6 - Tool is based on .md (markdown) not html
> > > >
> > >
> > > adoc so better no? ;)
> > >
> > >
> > > > 7 - Maybe a straightforward way without learning curve can make
> people
> > > > start contributing?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Learning curve for gitbook ~= jbake I think so not sure.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Imagine this scenario:
> > > > Let's say I am an application developer that uses TomEE and I learned
> > > > something about it that is not clear in the docs. I don't want to
> learn
> > > the
> > > > whole website thing (structure) etc, I just want to write it and send
> > it
> > > in
> > > > an easy manner. This way seems pretty easy in my opinion.
> > > >
> > > > We need to make the environment welcoming if we want to improve this
> > > guys!
> > > >
> > > > These 2 JavaEE servers have some documentation and they don't keep
> on a
> > > > website, they use tools very similar to what I am proposing.
> > > >
> > > > Wildfly documentation
> > > > https://docs.jboss.org/author/display/WFLY10/Documentation
> > > >
> > > > Payara documentation
> > > > https://payara.gitbooks.io/payara-server/content/?
> > > > hsCtaTracking=8a4f0637-38ea-458c-a66c-6307d6f21923%
> > > > 7C26bb561b-3f60-4d3b-b64d-06398f00d8e2&__hstc=229474563.
> > > > 6de427338f64d2f474c236a686036ee9.1489142671622.
> > > > 1489142671622.1489142671622.1&__hssc=229474563.1.
> 1489142671623&__hsfp=
> > > > 2299569188
> > > >
> > > > Even though I agree content is more important than tools, I think
> tools
> > > > help greatly if we choose the right ones, and they can avoid rework
> > > which I
> > > > am sure nobody wants to do if not necessary.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > So globally does your feedback means we need to proxy the website
> content
> > > on github and maybe enhance the SEO?
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 5:00 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > > [email protected]
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 2017-03-10 3:16 GMT+01:00 Thomas Whitmore
> > <twhitmore@bravurasolutions.
> > > > com
> > > > > >:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Romain, Ivan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with Romain and raised the suggestion of improving doc a
> > > month
> > > > or
> > > > > > two ago. At the time I offered a few hours to help -- am probably
> > > busy
> > > > > for
> > > > > > another month now but do see documentation as an important
> factor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My feeling would be that content is more important than tools --
> I
> > > > would
> > > > > > see a librarian exercise to collect relevant docs and make them
> > > > > accessible
> > > > > > from the new site, as the most relevant. This I believe would
> give
> > > the
> > > > > most
> > > > > > easy and worthwhile improvement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My suggestion to move forward:
> > > > > > - collate docs from "old" openejb.apache.org site;  get these
> > > reviewed
> > > > > > and edit to remove outdated material.
> > > > > >         - reviewing/ marking of what's outdated & what can be
> > > corrected
> > > > > to
> > > > > > be delegated to appropriate people.
> > > > > > - make all docs accessible from Documentation areas on new
> > > > > > tomee.apache.org site;
> > > > > > - collect prioritized suggestions as to what documentation gaps
> > > remain.
> > > > > > - (probably also)  for those who found the old site by accident,
> > add
> > > > > links
> > > > > > from old site to new Documentation areas on tomee.apache.org
> site.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This should make it possible to cheaply & easily gather all
> useful
> > > > > > material from existing docs, consolidate the docs, and produce a
> > > > > shortlist
> > > > > > of doc to fill in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However I did look at Gitbook (www.gitbook.com) and it looks
> quite
> > > > > > interesting. How is the website/ documentation maintained at the
> > > > moment?
> > > > > > Would a tool like Gitbook enable better shared authoring or make
> > > > content
> > > > > > writing easier (eg rich text editor, not raw HTML)? These are
> > > > interesting
> > > > > > questions. It might also be possible to use gitbook to share
> > writing,
> > > > > then
> > > > > > upload resulting HTML to an existing website repo if that's how
> > > website
> > > > > is
> > > > > > maintained at the moment. See https://docs.duckduckhack.com/ for
> > an
> > > > > > example of Gitbook-produced docs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > we use a jbake site (
> > > > > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomee/site/trunk/
> > > > > generators/site-tomee-ng/src/main/jbake/
> > > > > - development with tomee itself ;))  the we just sync with site
> > content
> > > > > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tomee/site/trunk/content/ and push
> > > > through
> > > > > ASF mecanism ("CMS") which is basically a svn deployed on a click.
> > Nice
> > > > > thing of that tooling is the autostaging mode so you have a site
> > > preview
> > > > > before the prod one.
> > > > >
> > > > > So concretely we are in managed and public so already shareable. If
> > > > github
> > > > > is better we can sync with github like tomee itself, that's a
> detail.
> > > And
> > > > > we are adoc so github would just bring another structure but if you
> > > check
> > > > > we already have one. The search is interesting and I guess we'll
> need
> > > to
> > > > > add a kind of client search at build time or just use google.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I would suggest that TomEE as a project is technically nice, but
> > > > > > documentation may be holding it back. People on the mailing list
> > are
> > > > > great
> > > > > > & very helpful and willing to answer questions, but I would
> believe
> > > > that
> > > > > > providing this material as findable written documentation on the
> > > > current
> > > > > > (new) website is important, as documentation is one of the #1
> > things
> > > > > people
> > > > > > consider when considering a platform.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Thomas
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Romain Manni-Bucau [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, 10 March 2017 1:37 PM
> > > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > > Subject: Re: TomEE Documentation Suggestion
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Ivan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > we just revamped the website with a new structure, I know it is
> not
> > > > > > perfect but a step to something better. Tooling is also way
> easier
> > > now
> > > > to
> > > > > > get started with. So question is: what would bring gitbook which
> > > would
> > > > > make
> > > > > > it better we don't have already? If github we can ask infra to
> > proxy
> > > > our
> > > > > > site repo on ASF github org.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > > > > > @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog <
> > > > > > https://blog-rmannibucau.rhcloud.com> | Old Blog <
> > > > > > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/
> > > > > rmannibucau>
> > > > > > | LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | JavaEE
> > > Factory
> > > > <
> > > > > > https://javaeefactory-rmannibucau.rhcloud.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2017-03-10 1:14 GMT+01:00 Ivan Junckes Filho <
> > [email protected]
> > > >:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello TomEE developers,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Today TomEE documentation is spread across multiple places,
> some
> > > are
> > > > > > > not up to date anymore and some are just really hard to find on
> > the
> > > > > > > website. It is easier to find something on google than on
> > > > > > http://tomee.apache.org.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would like to suggest that TomEE uses www.gitbook.com, and
> we
> > > > > > > migrate there the relevant documentation. Updating a website
> with
> > > doc
> > > > > > > is ok, but I think it will make the job way easier and will
> open
> > > the
> > > > > > > gates for contributors.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > __________
> > > > > > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud
> > > > service.
> > > > > > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > __________
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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