On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 3:26 PM Neal Gompa <ngomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I also wonder if we're thinking about this problem all wrong. What if > the answer isn't to increase the friction in Rawhide, but instead to > create a regular output stream that people can use to be above > releases? That's more or less how Tumbleweed works, as it's > essentially snapshotted and published from Factory when it "checks > out" via the OpenQA gate. Now, OBS has the nice ability of being able > to have granular control of how publishing actually works. I think the > way Koji's tagging mechanism works may provide a similar capability, > and we could leverage that to produce something like mattdm's > oft-wanted "Fedora Bikeshed". > > I for one don't actually want Rawhide to be gated because it makes > things much harder in terms of properly developing new features. We're > simply not capable of being as good as OpenSUSE in terms of automation > to be able to pull off the feats they do. There were major changes to > how OpenSUSE did packaging to begin with to be able to pull off what > they did, and I simply don't think anyone here is prepared to do even > a small bit of that yet. > > And before someone brings up Factory 2.0 and Modularity (because > someone *will*), neither of those solve the problem. Instead they > create new ones by completely decoupling package life cycles from the > distribution lifecycle (meaning that now it's even harder to introduce > distribution-wide changes) and requiring us to shimmy in ways to > handle multiple versions for creating weird bundles without being > prepared to figure out how to actually keep that sane. > > I'm glad someone brought up Tumbleweed because every so often I build a VM of Tumbleweed, a VM of Rawhide and a VM of Debian "sid" just to see if I could use any of them as a workstation day-to-day. What I'm looking for mostly is the latest GNOME desktop, Firefox browser, Virtual Machine Manager stack and Docker stack. LibreOffice is nice but I can live without it, given that I have RStudio Server and PostgreSQL / PostGIS running in (Debian) containers. Rawhide as it currently exists can't stay solid enough for me even with just the few pieces I absolutely need. Tumbleweed, for all it's promise of "latest and greatest", is not supported by enough third parties to be useful even as just a host. And sid is, well, sid. If there was a "Fedora GNOME Tumbleweed" I would absolutely use it, because the rest of Fedora's container stack - OpenShift Origin, source-to-image, etc. - is way better than what's in Tumbleweed or Sid. Sure, I could build that stuff from source but I don't want to waste the troubleshooting time. -- How many people can stand on the shoulders of a giant before the giant collapses?
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