On 14/08/2019 15:01, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> David Sommerseth wrote:
>> Like it or not, Python 2 is going to die:
>> <https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/>
>> Python 2 will not be maintained by upstream after January 1, 2020.  Python
>> 2 will go EOL during the lifetime of Fedora 31.
> So what? Qt 3 had its last release (3.3.8b) in 2008 (and that was basically 
> just a relicensing of the final 2007 release 3.3.8). Yet, we (mostly me) 
> still maintain qt3 and backport security fixes where issues are reported to 
> us, and Qt 3 applications still work fine. I have KSensors (a qt3/kdelibs3 
> application) sitting in my system tray all the time. It still works (thanks 
> also to Plasma 5's xembedsniproxy). I also use Quanta Plus to edit HTML. It 
> also works as expected.

So what?  You chose to do this work to keep this alive.  In my personal
opinion, that's wasting of precious time and I would never have done that.
You chose differently, and I respect that.

> Just because upstream no longer releases something does not mean it has to 
> disappear from distributions instantly. I see no other distribution being as 
> aggressive about removing Python 2 as Fedora is.

I honestly don't care much what other distros do.  I care about the road
forward for Fedora.  In my point of view, putting legacy software which has
reached EOL from upstream behind is really sane.  If you want/need it, then
port it forward to the future.

Secondly, this isn't "disappearing instantly", as you say.   Fedora started
this migration almost 4 years ago.  If this feels "instantly", someone has not
paid attention.

> There is also a fork trying to keep Python 2 alive:
> https://github.com/naftaliharris/tauthon
> though it is unfortunately unclear whether the most important point 
> (backporting security issues) will be taken care of reliably:
> https://github.com/naftaliharris/tauthon/issues/109

And this is why we should let Python 2 rest in peace once it reaches EOL.
Python 3 contains a lot of improvements over Python 2.  The world need to move
forward and not linger in the past.

> But it is always possible to do the backports downstream, as we are doing 
> for the Qt 3 and 4 stacks.

Who will do this job?  And which guarantees do we have it will be done in a
way providing the same quality work the Python community has done so far?

If the result is less secure Python 2 updates, nothing really improves at all
... except keeping code which should be ported forward to Python 3 alive
longer than really needed.

Instead of spending time and resources keeping old stuff alive longer than
needed, rather spend that energy on porting the old Python 2 over to Python 3.
 In the long run, this will result in far less work over time.

kind regards,

David Sommerseth
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