On 03/03/2020 17:35, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 4:10 AM Daniel Pocock <dan...@pocock.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28/02/2020 10:00, Ankur Sinha wrote:
>>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 17:07:21 -0500, Dakota Williams via devel wrote:
>>>> On 2/26/20 6:59 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would you like help? I'd be willing to be a co-maintainer to make the
>>>>>> branch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I would welcome help with these packages
>>>>>
>>>>> But there is also an increasing problem of making decisions about trust
>>>>>
>>>>> In the case of developers who I haven't met or worked with, I don't
>>>>> really know how to proceed
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen several extraordinary examples of developers doing things that
>>>>> undermine my confidence in them over the last couple of years. The
>>>>> fighting within GNU and FSF right now is the latest iteration of that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, whenever I receive a request from somebody I don't know, there is
>>>>> an extra effort for me to decide how to proceed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I can simply resign from maintaining the asio package and then opt
>>>>> out of the process of choosing a new maintainer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please don't take this personally: it is a reflection of the overall
>>>>> state of free software communities today.
>>>>>
>>>> I don't know about the situation with the GNU project and the FSF, but if
>>>> there's something you'd like me to do to prove trust, I could do it.
>>>
>>> I'd like to add that by default we trust each other, in the spirit of
>>> being excellent to each other. In this particular case,
>>
>> Why, then, have my replies to this thread never appeared in the mailing
>> list then, only to the people on CC?
>>
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/JGCY5GM42SR2BEXGNUP6C335IFEV66KD/
>>
>
> I do not know why. I have filed an issue with infrastructure to find
> out: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/8713
Thanks for doing that
Here are some observations:
- the original email was sent to my pocock.com.au address and so my mail
client replied to all mails using that address, I didn't notice until
now. That address is not subscribed.
- my other address, pocock.pro, is subscribed
- the list didn't give me any bounces or alerts that messages were held.
At least some lists give warnings when a mail is sent from an address
that is not subscribed
- the last message sent from the pocock.pro address was on 19 August, it
was delivered to the list but only with a delay of 9 minutes
- the message prior to that was delayed by 20 hours inside Fedora:
Received: from mailman01.phx2.fedoraproject.org (localhost [IPv6:::1])
by mailman01.phx2.fedoraproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id
CCE3858968E1E;
Fri, 2 Aug 2019 14:43:36 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mailman01.phx2.fedoraproject.org (Postfix, from userid 991)
id DCFA658968E12; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:25:21 +0000 (UTC)
Combined with the blog censorship and other things going on in various
places, this type of observation is not very motivating but I do
understand things sometimes go wrong for technical reasons.
>> My own statement wasn't directed at any particular maintainer and
>> doesn't imply that I am ungrateful for any offers of help. I am very
>> grateful for those people, including Dakota, who reached out in a
>> positive way.
>>
>> Trust is not a constant thing, it can change over time. The wider
>> atmosphere and the disappearance of messages from mailing lists
>> contributes to lower confidence.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I now see several emails every week (not necessarily from
>> the Fedora mailing lists) that cause suspicion and concern. I then feel
>> a need to look at every other interaction more carefully.
>>
>> When I mentioned the death of my father in a blog recently, my blog was
>> removed from Planet Fedora. Now it seems my emails go to a moderator
>> who doesn't have the time to keep up with all those censorship duties.
>> I find this behaviour incredibly insulting and degrading, I suspect
>> anybody in my position would feel the same way.
>>
>
> I'm sorry about that. I don't know what happened there either.
>
>>> co-maintainership shares responsibility but does not hand it over
>>> completely (the handing-over bit can be done at a later stage, if
>>> necessary). Every change/commit/message is public, so there are plenty
>>> of opportunities to catch any errors.
>>>
>>> Given that we do not often meet our Fedora colleagues in person, it is
>>> not viable to expect members of the community to prove trustworthiness
>>> through personal relationships. We assume the best in each other, and if
>>> things do get hairy, we have open community channels, processes, and
>>> overseeing bodies through which changes can be emended.
>>
>> My email was not a request for Dakota or anybody else to prove
>> trustworthiness, it was only a reflection of my own perception of things
>> going on in the wider free software community.
>>
>> But based on what you say, I'm happy to give access to Dakota and I'd
>> also like to know if anybody else can help with the reSIProcate
>> packages. There is a new release in the pipeline and if somebody wants
>> to get involved, now is the time. We already made all the upstream
>> fixes required for it to work with the latest dependencies on Fedora.
>>
>
> Thanks for granting Dakota maintainer privileges for asio! :)
>
> I may be able to spare some cycles to help with reSIProcate (after I
> get out of my mountain of FTBFS issues...). I'm sure other folks here
> could help as well. :)
As upstream release manager, I try to keep the needs of packaging in
mind so it shouldn't be too hard to maintain
Regards,
Daniel
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