On Thu, 20 May 2021 at 10:00, Vít Ondruch <vondr...@redhat.com> wrote:
> > Dne 20. 05. 21 v 8:54 Clement Verna napsal(a): > > > > On Wed, 19 May 2021 at 13:55, Neal Gompa <ngomp...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 2:45 AM Clement Verna <cve...@fedoraproject.org> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, 19 May 2021 at 06:50, Tomasz Torcz <to...@pipebreaker.pl> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Dnia Tue, May 18, 2021 at 03:37:27PM -0400, Dusty Mabe napisał(a): >> >> > Over the next two days we're rolling out the first Fedora 34 based >> >> > Fedora CoreOS into the `stable` stream. >> >> > >> >> > - systemd-resolved is still enabled but not used yet [1] >> >> >> >> This was Fedora 33 feature. >> >> >> >> > - Move to cgroup v2 by default [5]. >> >> >> >> This was Fedora 31 feature. >> >> >> >> I was wondering: Fedora CoreOS actively undoes distribution-wide >> >> changes (at least the two above, I remember lagging with iptables-nft >> >> around Fedora 32). End user may confused, seeing the list of changes >> >> for the release X, but receiving only few of them with edition CoreOS >> X. >> >> >> >> Should such divergence be allowed? Should Fedora CoreOS use the same >> >> version number while not containing all the changes from main Fedora >> Linux? >> > >> > >> > I think this is the fundamental difference here, Fedora CoreOS does not >> have a version number. It has 3 streams, stable, testing and next, these >> streams are based on a version of Fedora Linux but that should just be a >> detail that most end users should not have to care about. >> > Another difference is that Fedora CoreOS has automatic updates and if >> we want our users to trust these automatic updates we need them to be rock >> solid. This leads to Fedora CoreOS being more conservative on how changes >> are rolled out to users, taking the example rolling out cgroups v2 in the >> Fedora 31 time frame would have broken all users that are using Docker to >> run their containers and this was not acceptable :-). >> > >> > If some users are getting confused and get curious about why there are >> these differences and learn more about how Fedora CoreOS works, that's a >> good thing IMO :-) >> >> No. This is a cop-out and a bad answer. > > The reason this happened is >> because Fedora CoreOS historically has not participated in the >> development of Fedora Linux, including the Changes process, and >> generally rolled back features instead of adapting with them during >> the development cycle. >> > > I don't think it is fair to say that FCOS is not participating in the > Change process. FCOS is following closely the Change Proposals > [0][1][2][3]. I agree that we could do a better job at submitting Change > Proposals and that's something we should improve on. > One thing I have a hard time to understand tho, if what happens when a > Change proposals breaks FCOS (like cgroups v2 for example) ? Should that > just be rejected ? > > > Why not if somebody raises such point? Just briefly looking on > fedora-devel threads and the related fesco ticket, I don't see FCOS > mentioned anywhere in this context. > Yes, that's maybe something where the FCOS Working Group can be more vocal :-) > > Vít > > > AFAIK not all changes are adopted by every Editions or Spins. What is in > your opinion the correct way forward ? > > > >> >> It's not like making changes and breaking upgrades is acceptable in >> Fedora Linux either. > > > Breaking or non backward compatible changes are acceptable in Fedora Linux > tho between major version bump. Again here the cgroups v2 is a good > example, folks using Docker had to perform some manual steps to switch back > to cgroups v1 to keep using their workflow working. This is fine when you > have a major version bump but this does not happen in FCOS. > > >> It's just that the Fedora CoreOS WG has not >> participated in the main development process and rolled back changes >> instead of adapting to them, which has frustrated pretty much >> everyone. The containers team in particular was extremely unhappy to >> find out cgroup v1 was still used in FCOS. I was pretty cheesed off >> when I discovered the sqlite rpmdb feature was rolled back in FCOS. >> > >> In general, I'm not pleased with how Fedora CoreOS does this. >> Hopefully they will do better in the future. >> > > [0] - https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/372 > [1] - https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/609 > [2] - https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/704 > [3] - https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/824 > > >> >> -- >> 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! >> _______________________________________________ >> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org >> Fedora Code of Conduct: >> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> List Archives: >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: >> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure >> > > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure >
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