On Wed, 19 May 2021 at 22:48, Joe Doss <j...@solidadmin.com> wrote: > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 2:45 AM Clement Verna > > <cve...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: > >> I think this is the fundamental difference here, Fedora CoreOS does > >> not have a version number. It has 3 streams, stable, testing and > >> next, these streams are based on a version of Fedora Linux but that > >> should just be a detail that most end users should not have to care > >> about. > > I disagree here. Fedora CoreOS has the Fedora name in it and it should > have the same fundamental features and changes that ship with each > Fedora release. To say it doesn't have a base version and that users > shouldn't care about it is pretty dismissive. >
Sorry if that sounded dismissive, but that's really how I feel. I recognize that I have a bias towards thinking that most FCOS users are similar to my profile. I am a developer and I don't have a strong interest in the OS, I just expect it to work and provide me the tools needed to do my job. To me that's the beauty of FCOS, I get a solid, tested OS that get automated updates and just works, I honestly don't care to know which version of Fedora Linux it is based on or which features it has. I want to spin-up an instance make sure that my application works and forget about it. I also understand that there are other type of users that will care much more about the base OS than me:-). > > >> Another difference is that Fedora CoreOS has automatic updates and > >> if we want our users to trust these automatic updates we need them > >> to be rock solid. This leads to Fedora CoreOS being more > >> conservative on how changes are rolled out to users, taking the > >> example rolling out cgroups v2 in the Fedora 31 time frame would > >> have broken all users that are using Docker to run their containers > >> and this was not acceptable :-). > >> > >> If some users are getting confused and get curious about why there > >> are these differences and learn more about how Fedora CoreOS works, > >> that's a good thing IMO :-) > > Confusing and frustrating your users is a bad thing. > > On 5/19/21 6:54 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > No. This is a cop-out and a bad answer. The reason this happened is > > because Fedora CoreOS historically has not participated in the > > development of Fedora Linux, including the Changes process, and > > generally rolled back features instead of adapting with them during > > the development cycle. > > > > It's not like making changes and breaking upgrades is acceptable in > > Fedora Linux either. It's just that the Fedora CoreOS WG has not > > participated in the main development process and rolled back changes > > instead of adapting to them, which has frustrated pretty much > > everyone. The containers team in particular was extremely unhappy to > > find out cgroup v1 was still used in FCOS. I was pretty cheesed off > > when I discovered the sqlite rpmdb feature was rolled back in FCOS. > > > > In general, I'm not pleased with how Fedora CoreOS does this. > > Hopefully they will do better in the future. > > I'll echo Neal's sentiment here. This is a cop-out and bad answer. > > It is frustrating to consume FCOS only to see features that are in the > current release of Fedora are rolled back. Even in today's FCOS WG > meeting I brought up adding in zswap to FCOS and it is shelved until > Kubernetes adds for support swap enabled systems. > > The RHCOS and Openshift teams should be back porting these breaking > changes, so FCOS can look to the future with Fedora. FCOS should not be > shackled by limits imposed by RHCOS/Openshift/Kubernetes. > > Joe > > > > -- > Joe Doss > j...@solidadmin.com > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure >
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