I'm confused... I didn't think StackOverflow was being discussed as a
replacement to handbook pages/docs. I thought it was being discussed as
a place to get questions answered, that is support? How to glue modules
together to get a task done?
I admit to being confused about where I should put my module
documentation, but that's documentation, and I don't think that a tool
like StackOverflow would be a suitable replacement for the Handbook
sites, but maybe I've missed the whole point of this thread.
I was advocating for "whoever actually does the work" (i.e. volunteers
their time) having a larger voice than those who just aren't happy with
the way the work is being done, and want to change it. That's not an
appointed team, and that analogy would still hold true on a site like
wikipedia. I was just pointing out that the people who actually answer
the questions are the most valuable resource we have and should be
driving the discussion.
Hmmm.... I thought I was chiming on on a proposal to move much of the
kinds of things that happen in the support forums over to StackOverflow,
but it's pretty clear I've unintentionally hit some kind of nerve here
regarding your dissatisfaction with the documentation team.
Didn't mean to offend....
Dave
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Victor Kane <victork...@gmail.com
<mailto:victork...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 11:52 AM, David Metzler <metzler...@gmail.com
<mailto:metzler...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Likewise although I already have to some extent:
first non-sequitur:
I think we have a pretty free / wiki like approach in place
already. I also think that this is something that's best
decided by those who are doing the work.
wot? So if it's a free / wiki like approach, leave it alone, there
are no decisions to make. Maybe some occasional pruning or abuse
control, but that should be it.
and then again:
Seems like those that are up for doing the work should have the
loudest voice here.
This is the whole problem to the approach up till now: the
documentation should not be organized top-down: this model has shown
itself to be a failure. Everyone should be contributing to the
Drupal Handbook documentation, and to the extent they do, they are
having the loudest voice. There's no need for a "team" to exist on
top of that.
All they do is move stuff around so it's harder to find. Or take
valuable Drupal 6 stuff out.
Victor
Dave
On Feb 1, 2011, at 4:37 AM, Victor Kane wrote:
I won't be able to go to DrupalCon this year, so I'll give my
feedback here.
One thing that's clear from the success of many open
documentation sites (wikipedia, stack overflow) is that they
avoid top down governance, they let the meritocracy form on
the basis of what actually happens.
I firmly believe that the existence of "document leads" and
other forms of control have done more harm than good, despite
heroic efforts from these individuals, since all that has
happened over the last few years is a constant moving around
of a hierarchical structure.
Why wouldn't a freer, wiki like approach work?
Victor Kane
http://awebfactory.com.ar <http://awebfactory.com.ar/>
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Randy Fay <ra...@randyfay.com
<mailto:ra...@randyfay.com>> wrote:
I don't think we can delegate any part of Drupal to
something we don't control; I think that's just a non-starter.
So for me, the issue is what we can learn from
StackOverflow and friends - they do great stuff and end up
with great content. And yes, I think we should build
something on that.
Who is signing up to build it? I think it's an easy sell.
-Randy
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Dan Horning
<dan.horn...@planetnoc.com
<mailto:dan.horn...@planetnoc.com>> wrote:
i have to ask ... what would we actually gain by doing
this - cleanup the various methods for finding info
about a given module or theme or bug a little and we
far surpass this suggested tool
it seems that stackoverflow is driven very highly on
userpoints to control access - which while a good
thing - doesn't really fit the development model we
have here. there are existing processes that would
have to change to fit the suggested model. I for one
am more for peer reviews and leadership staff
assigning access than a points system that someone
could rack up points and just get access ... what's
that really do for the community - seems that would be
great if we were just a tech help forum - awarding
points for the users that help and giving them more
access - but what's that do for drupal and it's
community? (i know there is a potential for this to
help ...)
another area of issue to me is - another login ? or
would it use SSO?
do the drupal leadership users and dries have admin
level control...?
mostly here i just don't get what adding yet another
resource (like has been said before) would do to help
the lead devs, module + theme devs and just supporting
drupal. if i had say -=- i'd vote against this idea
--
Dan Horning
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Kane" <victork...@gmail.com
<mailto:victork...@gmail.com>>
> To: development@drupal.org
<mailto:development@drupal.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:01:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [development] Drupal Answers: A
Stackoverflow/StackExchange site proposal
> I guess this is a good place to start:
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:00 PM, Victor Kane <
victork...@gmail.com <mailto:victork...@gmail.com> >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Josh Koenig <
j...@getpantheon.com <mailto:j...@getpantheon.com> >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Stew,
>
>
> Thanks for starting this thread. This is important
stuff:
>
>
>
>
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/2978/drupal-answers
>
> I want to put my support behind this proposal and
explain my thinking
> in doing so.
>
>
> The Drupal community is already growing faster than
Drupal's
> infrastructure can easily support. With the release
of D7 and all the
> other associated projects getting off the ground,
drupal.org <http://drupal.org/> is
> increasingly often a bottleneck or blocker. We have
wonderful hosts
> from OSUOSL, but the human resources needed to
develop, maintain and
> manage our own infrastructure (which is a 24x7x365
job) are limited.
>
>
> We have to pick our battles. I much would rather see
energy, effort,
> attention and money poured into continuing to
improve our git and
> module infrastructure — which is much more deeply
intrinsic to the
> health and future of the project — and accept that
even though we
> *can* build our own StackOverflow (@eaton proved
this already) that
> doesn't necessarily mean it's the best use of
limited resources, or
> the best thing for the project.
>
>
> Drupal can theoretically/technically solve a lot of
its own problems,
> but I think we often suffer from a "not built here"
prejudice as a
> result. In the realm of getting good quality answers
to Drupal
> questions out to the most people possible, I can't
see how a
> StackExchange site would do anything but help. I
would love to see the
> community embrace something really cool and useful
from the wider
> Internet as a way to promote the project.
>
>
>
>
> You make a convincing argument Josh; my own gut
feeling has been,
> reading this thread, "how can we delegate something
so important to
> the Drupal Community as its own documentation to
another party who may
> or may not exist in the near/medium/long term".
>
>
> Can someone inform somewhat on who these guys are?
And why there and
> not someplace else?
>
>
> Victor
>
>
>
>
>
> Finally, I should say that I *do not* think a
StackExchange answers
> site replaces anything. It's not an issue queue, and
it's not a
> replacement for the dialogue that exist in the
forums. I would say
> it's a new resource, something that can help the 10s
of 1000s of
> people who will be trying to wrap their mind around
Drupal in the
> coming year.
>
>
> Cheers
> -josh
--
Randy Fay
Drupal Module and Site Development
ra...@randyfay.com <mailto:ra...@randyfay.com>
+1 970.462.7450
