On Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 11:07:51AM +0200, Oskar Sandberg wrote: > On Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 12:19:46AM -0500, thelema wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, Oskar Sandberg wrote: > < > > > > It hardly matters whether retrieval success is 90% or 99%, if you are > > > trying retrieve 100 parts without redundancy you are still fucked (2e-5% > > > or 36% success). In a system where retrieval cannot be guaranteed, > > > redundancy is necessary when splitting so as to offset the normal > > > exponential decay when a file is split into many parts. It is ridiculous > > > that we should sacrifice aspects of the network to achieve 1 in 1000 > > > failure rather than something acceptable like 1 in 50 or 100, so that > > > files split into 100 parts "only" should fail 1 time in 10. > > > > > I'm just suprised that everyone now seems to agree that we need > > redundancy when before everyone seemed to be saying "hell no, keep that > > redundancy away", and I had to compromise with a system that allowed > > both redundant and non-redundant usage. What about the argument that > > goes sorta like "when you insert more data into freenet that'll cause > > the pieces of other files to fall out faster"? Or the arguments about > > piece popularity being not as high when there's redundant pieces, and > > that causing pieces to fall out faster. > > I don't believe there has been any significant questioning of redundant > splitting since more than a year ago. The hit against network > performance because there is more data cannot compare with the > exponential numbers if you split without redundancy - and if Freenet is > bordering on holding more data than it can carry it is in trouble > anyways. The second is true, which is why we need clients to behave well > and request different patterns randomly. But what clients will do, most likely, is request all pieces and use whatever comes first, improving latency. > > > I'd like to clarify my position, which probably seems to be against > > redundancy if you just read the above, but I really think that we should > > try non-redundant splitfiles and if they really can't be requested > > successfully, we should try adding a *little* bit of redundancy and see > > how that improves things, and not to go overboard with the redundancy. > > I promise that you success rate is not even 90% ATM. Do the math > yourself. > > > > > Thelema > > -- > > E-mail: thelema314 at bigfoot.com If you love something, set it free. > > GPG 1536g/B9C5D1F7 fpr:075A A3F7 F70B 1397 345D A67E 70AA 820B A806 F95D > > > > -- > Though here at journey's end I lie > In darkness buried deep, above all shadows rides the Sun > beyond all towers strong and high, and the Stars forever dwell: > beyond all mountains steep, I will not say the Day is done, > nor bid the Stars farewell. > (JRRT) > > Oskar Sandberg > oskar at freenetproject.org > > _______________________________________________ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devl
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