Hi, In defense of Guillaume's position, developers are the worst group to market to, we want tools to get out of our way but provide everything we need, we want our tools to be fast and we want to extend them using <favorite language> and possibly would not even review a solution which wasn't written in that language. We do not tolerate imperfection (and use the word 'sucks' often). Even JIRA is not marketed to developers but rather to the managers who guard over them.
One of XWiki's big selling points in my opinion is that it is open source so you're not going to end up in integration hell because the company needs specialized business software and their intranet solution refuses to talk to it. If we can use XWikiDev as a way to wear the system integrator hat then we get the best of dogfooding while producing a suite of extensions which might come in handy to some of our users. Overall I'd give this a cautious +1 Thanks, Caleb On 11/21/2012 09:00 AM, Guillaume Lerouge wrote: > Hi Vincent, > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On Nov 21, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Vincent, >>> >>> if I may, this looks like a common fallacy: developers wanting to build >>> tools for developers. Of course building a "XWiki for Software >> Development" >>> flavor will sound sexy to you, since you're a developer yourself as well >> as >>> a XWiki committer. You would be your own target audience. In other words, >>> you want to build something for yourself. >> >> I think that not being a developer you completely miss the point :) >> > > Of course. > >> However, please note that the market for such tools is already very, very >>> crowded. >> >> Market? Who's talking about marketing/research studies, etc here? :) >> > > As a developer, you're (presumably) writing software for an audience, with > the hope that members of this audience ("users") will some day use it. > > I used the word "market" in that sense. > > >>> There's Trac / Bloodhound, there's the whole Atlassian suite, >>> there is what Github is building as well as countless other solutions. >>> >>> One of XWiki's great strengths and differentiators is in its ability to >> let >>> people manage structured and unstructured content easily. I think we >> should >>> keep focusing our work on this instead of trying to enter a crowded space >>> with little perceivable benefits >> >> Who's "we"? >> > > Members of the XWiki.org community. > > Guillaume > >> . In your mind, is this the very best thing >>> we could possibly work on in order to ensure XWiki's long-term success >> and >>> sustainability? >> >> Definitely. >> > > Not "one of the best things", "the very best thing". There is nothing else > that could possibly be appealing to a wider audience and would thus > guarantee the long-term sustainability of XWiki software? > > Guillaume > > Thanks >> -Vincent >> >>> My 2 cents, >>> >>> Guillaume >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 21, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Jeremie BOUSQUET < >> [email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Vincent, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2012/11/18 Vincent Massol <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi devs, >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *** Latest emails (taken from mailman or other mailing list software, >>>>>> possibly by subscribing the project to a mailing list so that it gets >>>> the >>>>>> emails) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ** A forum application, for example the Mail Archive Application done >> by >>>>>> Jeremie which would need to be improved to add ability to post from it >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Couldn't / shouldn't it be the same thing ? >>>>> I know the Mail Archive App is not finished at all, but one feature is >>>>> possibility to generate code to include in pages in order to display >>>>> filtered lists of emails or topics loaded by the app (filtering by >>>>> mailing-list, with ordering, max nb, etc…). >>>> >>>> Yes, it's the same thing I agree. >>>> >>>>> If I may add some comment, it's a very nice idea. To me the biggest >> trap >>>> is >>>>> integration with external sources. If it's not easily pluggable / >>>>> configurable and choice is too restricted, it will attract only a >> little >>>>> subset of developers. In my office for example, I would use it if I >> could >>>>> link to Rhodecode or Mercurial (instead of github) and Redmine (instead >>>> of >>>>> jira). >>>> >>>> Yep, we would need contributions for other issue trackers but once we >>>> start having something it may attract devs to develop other >> integrations. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent >> >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
