Hi, On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < [email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hi Caty, > > > > thanks for your message. Please see my answers below. > > > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > The current behavior was reached after many discussions. > > > > > > > I understand. However, I only got the time to actually try and test XE > 7.2 > > last week. And based on what Edy said, I'm not the only one who was > > surprised by the current behavior :-) > > > > > > > Currently the concept of main wiki is expressed as the 'home' icon, but > > is > > > not tied to a particular space. This is something we preserved and is > > > flexible enough for users with custom content to change the location of > > the > > > homepage or assigned a different space, for a different subwiki. > > > > > > > I understand this. I'm not questioning the current behavior, but the > > underlying assumption. Given the new paradigm we're implementing with > > nested spaces, why would an user want to change the location of the > > homepage? To me, it's like saying that you would want the top level > folder > > on your computer to be something else than the hard drive itself. I don't > > understand why that would be useful. > > > > Do you have specific use cases in mind that I might be missing (other > than > > "this feature existed before")? > > > > I think the main use case when you have old/imported from somewhere else > content. Instead of having to copy all those pages inside Main space, you > just import them and reassign the homepage. > > > > > > > Also we needed to showcase differently spaces that are top level, vs. > pages > > > inside the Main space, while having the limited number of exceptions > > > created for the breadcrumb. > > > > > > > I think there are 2 separate problems here: > > > > 1. Where should we put all of the pages that are currently in the > "Main" > > space if we decide that not all of them deserve to be top-level pages > > 2. Making it possible to have top-level pages in a coherent manner > > > > I don't think we have such a concept of top-level pages. Nothing in Main > space is a top-level page (pages like Welcome are tool-pages). > The only top-level/important page is Main.WebHome. > > > > > > For 1., pages in the Main space could stay where they are for now. "Main" > > would be the legacy space where we put useful tools for the management of > > your wiki. > > > > Also think about the pages in XWiki space, that are tool-pages. > > > > > > I'm discussing the answer for 2. below. > > > > Also I wouldn't like that all the URL contain the word 'Main' Imagine > that > > > besides the 'xwiki/bin/view/' we would need to also contain the > homepage > > > space? > > > > > > My very point is that the home page wouldn't (shouldn't?) need to be > > "Main". It would be "". IE, there would be nothing in the URL to reflect > > it. It would be a representation of the wiki itself. > > > > I understand that technically this is not feasible right now and that we > > *need* to have a specific page be the home page, which is the role played > > by Main.WebHome. What I'm saying is that with the new system, I'd rather > > have *.../xwiki/bin/view/WebHome => **.../xwiki/bin/view/ *would be the > > whole wiki. That level would be the top level space (which is exactly > what > > has been implemented by the way). Do you see what I mean? > > > > I see what you mean and it would be ideal, but technically right now I > don't think we can achieve that. And that's why all the problems and > exceptions. > > > > > > > > > Although we have a convention that a certain page is displayed as > > > homepage, this is not needed to be in the URL. 'home' icon is a link > for > > > the homepage, not a physical location. Currently the 'Main' space can > > > contain pages useful for the display of the homepage, but is an > > 'optional' > > > space. > > > > > > > What I' suggesting is precisely that the home page be its own document at > > the very top of the hierarchy, ABOVE what is currently known as > > Main.WebHome. This is why while the user is on this page, she should see > > only the home icon. > > > > Is this making what I mean clearer? I'm just suggesting we push things > one > > step further in the direction that has already been established. > > > > :) sure, but how do we do it? > Usually, when hopeing for something like this to get done, I beg Vincent to find a way ;-) Guillaume Thanks, > Caty > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Guillaume > > > > Thanks, > > > Caty > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Guillaume Lerouge < > [email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Edy, > > > > > > > > thanks for the explanation. Please see my feedback below. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Yes, "this is not a bug, it's a feature!" :) I had documented it > in a > > > > small > > > > > paragraph [1] (see the note) but did not feel it was worthy to be > > > > mentioned > > > > > in the release notes. Please feel free to rephrase if needed. > > > > > > > > > > It's not specifically about "Main", but about the current wiki's > > > homepage > > > > > (and "Main.WebHome" is the default homepage that can be changed > from > > > > > administration). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this feature (changing the home page) still makes sense in the > > > context > > > > of nested spaces? What is the point to define the home page as > > > ".../A/B/C" > > > > when based on the new system, "C" is a sub-sub page? > > > > > > > > To me, with nested spaces the home page is always the same and cannot > > be > > > > changed. You may want to add a redirect, but this doesn't change the > > fact > > > > that the top page is the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The effort is to try to avoid the situation where a regular user > > lands > > > on > > > > > the homepage of the wiki (just accessed the wiki or maybe he > clicked > > > the > > > > > logo) and wants to create a document. He enters the title and > presses > > > > > "create". Obviously his intention was to create a page, and, more > > often > > > > > than not (IMO at least), his actual intention was to create a top > > level > > > > > document and not a child document of the wiki's current homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with this. However, in that case, shouldn't the home page be > > > simply > > > > *https://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/* instead of > > > > *https://<server>/xwiki/bin/view/Main/* ? > > > > > > > > Using short URLs, you could even have the home page under *https:// > > > > <server>/ > > > > *and then subpages at *https://<server>/A, **https://<server>/A/B* > and > > > so > > > > on. This would be in line with what most CMS do and it would fix your > > > > issue: any page created from the home is a sub-page at the expected > > > level. > > > > > > > > Image the homepage gets changed to "Some.Deep.Document.As.Homepage". > > > > > Without this "trick", a regular user would end up, by mistake IMO > > (and > > > by > > > > > using the "next-next-next" mindset), creating the document > > > > > "Some.Deep.Document.As.Homepage.NewDocument". > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said above, I actually think we should remove this feature in > the > > > > context of nested spaces. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if the homepage remains the default one, I see no logical > reason > > > in > > > > > spamming all the new documents with the "Main" prefix, the result > > being > > > > an > > > > > artificially deeper hierarchy and longer URL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agreed. As mentioned above, ideally we'd remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a user really intended to create a document as a child of the > > > homepage > > > > > (rare usecase IMO), he has all the tools in the UI to simply do so. > > > > > > > > > > I agree that it's a minor consistency dent, but IMO the benefit > > > justifies > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't quite agree that it's minor. One of the implied goals of > nested > > > > spaces is to be able to have consistent URL naming (I know exactly > > where > > > > page *https://<server>/A/B/C *is). Having a special case for Main > > breaks > > > > this. > > > > > > > > Similarly, when on the home page on the main wiki, I don't understand > > why > > > > the breadcrumb shows both the "home" icon and "Home" text. Why keep > > both > > > > when the icon would be enough? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Guillaume > > > > > > > > WDYT? (interested in more opinions on this since I've already had 2 > > > > > eyebrows raised on this topic :) ) > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > --------- > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/DocumentLifecycle#HByusingtheAddPageaction > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Guillaume Lerouge < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Devs, > > > > > > > > > > > > I started trying out XE 7.2 (SNAPSHOT from around 12:30 today) > and > > I > > > > was > > > > > > very impressed, the changes look quite good! > > > > > > > > > > > > While playing with it, I had a question about how the "Main" > space > > is > > > > > > handled. Here's what I did: from .../xwiki/bin/view/Main/, I > > clicked > > > > the > > > > > > "create" button and created a sub page, then a sub-sub page. > Here's > > > > what > > > > > I > > > > > > got: > > > > > > > > > > > > - .../xwiki/bin/view/SubPage/SubSubPage > > > > > > > > > > > > Although I was expecting this: > > > > > > > > > > > > - .../xwiki/bin/view/Main/SubPage/SubSubPage > > > > > > > > > > > > So I was wondering whether this was the expected behavior, and > > > whether > > > > it > > > > > > had been discussed before? > > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats & Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > Guillaume > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
