AE4TM has posted a graph based on real world results using groundwave at 
various distances. 

It shows PI starts its dropoff at 10db S/N. It is a gradual dropoff to about a 
S/N of -5db to 0db. Somewhere in that range things go down very steeply.

PII maintains its throughput from +30db S/N all the way down to about a -10db. 
PIII shows a gradual dropoff from +30db down to 0db where the throughput is 
down by a factor of about 3.5. From 0db to -10db PIII drops sharply down and 
it is no faster than PII at -10db. -10db is the big knee for both. Throughput 
drops off very sharply at that point.


tim ab0wr


On Sunday 05 March 2006 06:26, Jose Amador wrote:

>
> Actually, with bad S/N ratios, thruput suffers a lot.
>
> I have been checking at
> http://www.scs-ptc.com/pactor.html before sending this
> reply, and there is some info, but I cannot find the
> graph
> comparing several modes up to P-II, that I think was
> published in QST in the late 90s.
>
> P-I with memory ARQ holds the link down to -5 dB (in a
> 3 kHz bandwidth, SNR in pactor´s bandwidth is BETTER
> than that). P-II holds the link down to -18 dB, but
> that´s all, thruput is almost nil.
>
> P-III shines at some 20 dB SNR, because with more
> complex constellations, the distance between the
> constellation points diminishes, and is less noise
> tolerant. Interleaving, compression and convolutional
> encoding with Viterbi decoding all that helps a lot,
> but there is a big distance between "telegraphy" and
> "telepathy"...that is, digging for signals down into
> the noise.
>
> After all, the most succesful newer digital modulation
>
> schemes are using some of the tricks that have made
> P-II and P-III successful, but there are physical
> limits that cannot be violated. Specially some forms
> of FEC, block codes and interleaving are helpful to
> avoid signal degradation due to QRM, fading and
> multipath, and data recovery without repeats thanks to
> block codes.
>
> But it carries a price tag, the more noise and QRM
> resistant a mode is, generally implies more latency,
> that is, makes it less "keyboard friendly".
>
> 73 de Jose, CO2JA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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