>
>Unix was *always* secure and Linux flowed out of Unix
>as did BSD.  Unix is very old.
>

I don't know what you're background in the computer field is, and I
don't mean to turn this into a resume review, but I've been writing
operating systems and OS-level components since, oh, 1978.  Your
statement that "Unix was *always* secure" is *entirely* inaccurate.

First, let me very clearly state my comments are restricted to
commercial operating systems -- not special purpose military operating
systems.

Next, I can categorically state that *no* commercial operating system
written in the 70's or 80's was "secure" as we mean the term today.
When we wrote operating systems code back then, we didn't fully
appreciate threats such as elevation of privilege, buffer overflows, or
code-injection (to name a few and to keep things simple).  We never even
considered the possibility that some kid in his bedroom in would spend
DAYS sending every undocumented system service code to the OS, or every
possible I/O Function Code to every driver, just to see what it did to
the system.  This was largely because, back then, we could never
anticipate some kid in his bedroom having access to a computer (Heck,*I*
didn't even have a computer *terminal* in my office back then).  Cuz,
back then, the smallest computer was as big as your refrigerator and
cost $200K (in 1978 dollars).

I can tell you with absolute certainty that -- back in the day -- even
code written for *highly* secure and sensitive defense department
systems (NOTE: THAT ARE NO LONGER IN USE) was written in such a way that
it would not pass even the most trivial level of threat analysis that is
routinely performed on almost ANY commercial code today.

In this way, Unix was *never* any more secure than any other OS written
during that time.  I was there.  I've read the code and I was one of the
people who WROTE the code (mostly device drivers) that ran as part of
these operating systems.

>
>MS *chose* to not implement security due to profit
>considerations and the impossbility of security because
>of the wide-open-everything-executes-in-root structure.
>It was a marketing and technological nightmare -- I
>remember it well as a systems manager and consultant.
>

Here are you referring to a different level of "security".  The
questions of (a) what protections does the OS provide, (b) what privs
are required to do things question, and (3) what are the default account
settings on a system.  

In the context of what protections are available and privs are required,
Unix-based systems have a rather coarse-grained security structure,
whereas Windows-based systems stemming from the Windows NT tree (thus,
starting with Windows 2000) have always had a rather fine-grained
security structure.  Consider that it's possible to grant or withhold
individual privileges to individual Windows users.  Further, consider
the security capabilities of the NTFS file system where you can grant or
withhold to a single, specific, user the privilege to access a specific
file in a specific way.  So, for a simple example, I could set the
security on a file that says UserX can READ the file but not write it
and when they do, I want an audit event written that says when they read
it.

Again, by the measurement of what security policies and protections are
AVAILBLE, Unix-based systems including Linux are NOT more inherently
secure than any Windows based on Windows NT (which was introduced in
1993 and is the basis for Windows 2000, XP, and Vista).

In terms of DEFAULT security policies: YES.  Windows DEFAULT security
policies have been open.  By DEFAULT most home users have been granted
administrative access to their systems.  This allows them to install
drivers, update the O/S, and do similar things without having to logout
of their user account and log back in as an administrator. In
retrospect, this was probably a bad idea. Well, perhaps a VERY bad idea.
 
The prevailing thinking at Microsoft for years was "we want just about
everything to be do-able by a user without having to login and logout"
and "we want defaults for things setup so everything just works."  This
approach made sense back in the days when it was first taken... When the
world was a safer place and the internet (didn't exist or certainly)
wasn't nearly so prevalent.

The world has changed over the past few years and so has the policy at
Microsoft.  The policy is now "secure by default" even if it breaks
stuff.

In retrospect, did Unix-derived systems make a better choice?  They made
a more secure choice, certainly, not having users run with "root" privs
by default and making folks authenticate to gain such privs.  From our
vantage point in 2007, this was clearly a better choice.

>
>Now I donate to many Linux developers because I
>want to support them.  It is not about Free to me,
>it is about choice and integrity and freedom from
>abusive OS contracts and limitations.
>

That's good! In fact that's GREAT!  Linux is a good and useful
alternative -- as is OS/X -- for those who want to use it.  There have
been strides made in the Linux space in recent years that Windows may
*never* be able to catch.  For example, the idea of "live CD" systems is
pure genius -- Windows would probably implement the same thing, but I
suspect they can't figure out how to ensure that they make money on such
an idea (one CD, many copies, lots of systems... you see my point). It's
wonderful that there's a whole community that helps move the Linux
platform forward with limited restrictions imposed by the motives of
profit.

But it is simply not technically accurate to say "Unix was always a
secure OS and Windows was not."

I might not know much about amateur radio, but I *do* know operating
systems,

de Peter K1PGV
Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the
Communist Party, a Republican, a member of Al Qaeda, or an employee of
Microsoft Corporation.

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