Hi All,
good that we have a civilized discussion.
On 31/07/2017 13:04, Ivan Vučica wrote:
It's slightly unfortunate we don't have one yet, but Live CDs like
this are a good thing to address this problem. I need to try it out... :)
The other reference was the Live VM image, very nice and polished, by
Richard. It had teh advantage of packaging "really current" releases and
debian packages.
Maybe you wonder why the talk about a "reference system" instead of a
proper "desktop environment"? I think what we generally agreed upon is
that GNUstep itself is not quite a desktop, but a set of development
libraries for writing applications. Think Gtk, not Gnome. We need
something to show off, but as we don't quite want to discourage
particular use cases (Sparc systems running Solaris with an old GCC,
drawing directly with xlib. Or x32 Windows systems drawing with Cairo
built with cygwin) it becomes hard to say "this is the true GNUstep
environment, you should use this".
But that we should have a reference system that we can point people
to? Yes.
Indeed, we offer many options and I am proud I can run a GNUstep
Application on a Solaris server, ranging from 7 to 11, Sparc, amd64 and
x86 :)
Of course however to a typical user has no real interest in that and we
assume "standard" operating system and architecture as Linux or BSD. So
we do know we want to use the Cairo backend, for example, modern GCC or
Clang, gnu make, ICU availability and most of other dependencies without
issues.
As I've always wanted to work on a light desktop using GNUstep, I
propose to
work on this :
Even if the project is not about building a desktop, a lots of
components are
already present. My idea is to write a short how-to that can be
polished along
the time. It should answer to such basic questions that are
evident for the
team but not for the others :
So in light of above comments, here's answers based on what I would
consider a 'reference' system:
- which Window Manager can I choose ? which one for that task ?
Many would say windowmaker. This is a good option as it integrates
some of the launcher tasks, but maybe not necessary when combined with
gworkspace. I don't personally use miniwindows so windowmaker is not
of much use to me, personally.
I use and suggest WindowMaker, but lots of more windowmanagers are usable.
I would not dislike a system built around a more standard WM, like
Metacity. With GNUstep configured with Gtk theme, for example.
- how should I configure GWorkspace ?
I don't use GWorkspace myself so I don't know what this question means :)
Indeed, please ask me (in a separate thread) about the options you want
to configure. Most things are just available in user accessible
preferences and should be either tuned to cooperate with the
windowmanager or to the user's taste.
- where can I find themes ?
WinUX: https://github.com/gnustep/plugins-themes-WinUXTheme
Gtk: https://github.com/gnustep/plugins-themes-Gtk
Rik: https://github.com/AlessandroSangiuliano/rik.theme
Silver:
http://svn.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/gnustep-nonfsf/themes/trunk/Silver.theme/ (Riccardo,
please correct me if it isn't, based on the recent announcement I
think this is the correct repo)
Hyconish: https://github.com/prateek-khandelwal/hyconish.theme
Yes, that is the new place of silver! fine new home! I would also
mention the yet unreleased themes in GAP:
http://svn.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/gap/trunk/bundles/themes/
Some are primitive, but Heritage, Sleek and Tango are quite usable.
One of the things you omitted is "which gnustep-gui backend should I
use?". The answer is almost certainly "cairo". "opal" backend was not
ready last time I used/wrote it :) while "cairo" is fully functioning.
Absolutely agreed. The xlib, art and win32-gdi theme have their special
uses and even advantages, but we Cairo is what a new user should test.
Since it uses the standard fonts and renders them in a consistent way
with GTK, it gives a smooth cross-application experience to a user. Font
rendering of art is to my taste much better, but e.g. if you open
Firefox and GNUMail the font rendering is clearly different.
Hence, starting with something light and extending it later.
Nothing related
to development but to building a working environment. I think it
can help to
attract devs because one can see what small apps / components are
missing, and
start to develop using GNUstep framework and tools.
Later this how-to can serve as a basis for better packaging in
distribs.
I'm a sysadmin, working with end users in mind, trying to install
simple, rock
and solid desktops for them. But I'm not a dev, I will have a lot
of questions
to ask...
Who wants to help ?
If I can... I will. I use and/or contribute most of the GS apps.
Riccardo
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