Hii Paul and William,
I would have to admit one fact. Most of the time customers cannot provide
with any assistance in important domain management tasks such as moving the
domain from a hosting company to another hosting company or shifting
registrars.
My personal experience says that out of 10 customers hardly 2 could
themselves complete the entire job and the rest 8 had to depend on us by
giving us the password or active telephony support to change the vital
details. Registrar transfer was a nightmare.
Again it is very much true that resellers can and some WILL abuse the power.
I know of resellers abusing such power (let their customer come up with
complaints, as I want to keep away from any disputes). A strict guideline
must be deviced by OpenSRS regarding such abuse to the end user. However it
must leverage more power to the reseller from the technical end (as they are
doing with every release). I feel that the current compliance department is
not looking into complains very seriously (might be just a warning - my
guess, as I am not aware what goes inside). If possible compliance matters
should be discussed more often with examples OpenSRS gets and the RSP in the
case, must have his chance to defend his action to the extent that OpenSRS
remains to follow the ICANN compliance specs. What do you all say ?
Niether I support that the vendor like us should have any power on our
customer's domain name, but we also have to do it for the customer on their
own request. Belive me they are not technies and they do not even understand
what is a registrar ! They just dont have the time to know all these. Active
example is the TATA's waking from their sleep and claiming the domain names
under dispute policies after so many years !
I hope this good discussion between you two guys gives us with some proper
guideline in this matter. I am following this with interest.
Regards
Abhishek Rungta
Indus Net Technologies
http://www.talash.net
>From: Paul Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "William X. Walsh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: ecs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: What to do against a Registrar who abuses his position?
>Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 01:00:26 +0100
>
>"William X. Walsh" wrote:
> >
> >
> > Why do you need to be the admin contact for the domains?
>
>To perform transfers to start with. As I said in my previous email, I
>think you're assuming that the company managing the domain is in the
>domain selling business. If you provide support then you need to be able
>to fully manage the domain because you're the one responsible for moving
>that domain if some other registrar, hosting company or whatever offers
>a better deal.
>
>How can I perform transfers for my clients if I'm not the admin contact?
>
> > > It may be a fact of life but that doesn't mean that ethical companies
> > > can't provide a good service. The ethical companies are answering
> >
> > The ethical customers can do this without being the admin contact.
>Ethical companies I think you meant and no they can't because the admin
>contact is required to perform certain functions that the technical
>contact cannot, such as authorise transfers.
>
>
> > > You don't address the situation I explicitly listed, where a company
>is
> > > paid explicitly to deal with all aspects of domain management, with
>the
> > > full knowledge of the client that the company is acting on their
>behalf
> > > in all matters. We have many clients who just have a PC in their
>bedroom
> >
> > And again, this does not require that the ISP be listed as admin
> > contact.
>
>We're not talking about ISPs we're talking about support companies.
>
> > > and know nothing about the internet but are selling their "hobby" in
> > > their spare time on their website. These clients wouldn't know what to
> > > do with any contact from the registrar and would immediately pass the
> > > matter on to us. In those cases they knowingly and willingly make us
>the
> > > admin contact.
> >
> > I question the knowingly part. I do not think they understand that
> > this effectively makes you the owner of their domain names, and that
> > in the event of a dispute, you could assert ownership rights over
> > their domain name. I think those customers are not being explained
> > that being the admin contact for their domain is nothing to be scared
> > of, or to be feared. And that being the admin contact does not mean
> > they are not permitting their ISP to manage the domain for them as the
> > tech contact.
>
>How can I possibly assert ownership rights over a domain by being the
>admin contact? As the system administrator I have no claim of ownership
>over what I administer, including the domain names.
>
> > > I think you're trying to make it a clear cut issue when it isn't one.
> >
> > It really is one. There is no reason for an ISP to be the admin
> > contact, and no reason for the customer to not be the admin contact.
> > In my eyes, and I think I am not alone here, that is a clear cut
> > matter.
>
>I don't seem to be getting the situation I'm referring to across clearly
>enough. This is not a situation where there is an ISP. This is a
>situation where you are explicitly hired to be the "admin contact". You
>represent the company you're providing support for in all respects, just
>as though you were an employee.
>
>If I was working in a company and was responsible for managing the
>domain names then I would be the admin contact, if I was working in that
>company as a contractor who was responsible for domain management then I
>would be the admin contact, if the company outsources that role to me as
>part of a support contract then I'd continue to be the admin contact. I
>effectively am the customer, I am equivalent to them in all respects in
>terms of management of the domains because that is what they pay me to
>do. There is no confusion over who actually owns the domain, in the same
>way as there is no confusion over who owns the physical assets that I'm
>responsible for. Being the admin contact is no different to being the
>point of contact for other support calls.
>
> > Again I ask you, what is it that you need to be the admin contact to
> > do on behalf of your customers that you could not do as the tech
> > contact?
>
>As well as the issue of performing transfers, there are the occasional
>mailings from the registrar about some issue or another that the client
>does not want to have to deal with. The issue with OpenSRS, which is the
>only registrar I've come across that forces the owner and admin to be
>the same is that the domain admin is the person who has access to the
>management environment. The whole point of having a support contract is
>to not have to deal with these issues, in the same way that getting a
>support contract for your server means you don't have to worry about
>allocating user accounts or email addresses. I'm talking about companies
>that don't have an internal IT dept but have a significant IT
>infrastructure, they outsource everything and you act on their behalf as
>though you worked there.
>
>
> > What is the negative to the customer to be listed as the admin contact
> > for their own domain?
>
>They have to do work that they are paying to have taken off their hands.
>
>Paul.
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