I'll give a second to that. Jon's whole book is just outstanding. It's also so well-written, it's the kind of book you'd enjoy curling up with on a blustery night!
Chris On Feb 11, 2008 9:39 AM, W Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Karen - > > I would recommend reading the article in Jon Kolko's book "Thoughts On > Interaction Design," by an interaction designer named Ellen Beldner called > "Getting Design Done," in which she deals with just that issue of how to > work effectively with PMs - especially when they want to own everything in > front of requirements gathering - and sometimes wireframes as well. She > includes some pretty funny anecdotes about working with some nightmare PMs > - > > Choice quote: > "I quit that job because the PM was a micromanager who didn't know what he > was doing. He took no pride in designing the best software possible; he > was > unwilling to listen to or consider my expertise; and he told me to do > things > that I thought were professionally unethical [like essentially copying the > UI worflows and designs of a direct competitor]." > > The article is well worth the price of admission - and the rest of the > book > is very good as well. > > - Will > > On Feb 10, 2008 11:30 PM, mark schraad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi Karen, > > > > Over the last couple of months I have been thinking a lot lately > > about just this issue. Stemming back a few months when the discussion > > was 'who is a designer' in reference to who gets to make design > > decisions. I believe that we as designers are painfully cognizent of > > where we think design starts, and where our expertise and influence > > should be primary. We as designers just do not understand when > > product managers and other business managers hire us for our > > expertise, pay us a lot of money, and then don't follow our precise > > recommendations (or in some cases override our decision). > > > > I would pose that much of that work... from the business development > > staff to the product managers are design decisions. They are also > > charged with working to create and develop great product/service... > > they just don't call it design. The decision to include a specific > > feature, or to meet a certain spec, well - those ARE design decisions. > > > > Try and look at those as the criteria to which you will design. And, > > if a spec or a requirement is not the best approach, it seems to me > > perfectly acceptable to challenge that, particularly when acting in > > the best interest of results and armed with persuasive logic, > > experience and convincing evidence. > > > > No one is going to say they do not want a better user experience. I > > hear product talk about it as if it was 'their' mantra almost daily. > > But when push comes to shove, they are tasked with hard short term > > metrics that they believe need to be met first and foremost. The user > > experience is, it seems, nearly always for sale in a rigidly > > structured, metric driven, corporate environment. This is short term > > thinking. > > > > Mark > > > > > > On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:14 AM, karen wrote: > > > > > I was responding to the Cooper thread but thought this might be a > > > different topic. I agree that spending time on the IxD of a product > > > before requirements are written in theory should result in a > > > stronger, more innovative product. The problem I've run into in my > > > last two positions (ecommerce and now, media) is that the product > > > analysts/managers view any pre-requirements work as their role. > > > They want to do the research, then they write requirements which > > > state how the product should be designed and they are the decision > > > makers during design. Ultimately, they drive the design. And not > > > one of the product folks I've worked with come from the IxD, IA or > > > usability arenas. > > > > > > This is a conflict for me as the product analysts/managers are > > > ultimately concerned with driving revenue not UE. Explaining that a > > > higher quality UE will increase revenue gets lip service but hasn't > > > changed anything. Have any of you had similar experiences? How do > > > you handle it? > > > > > > Thanks for any suggestions, > > > Karen > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* > > > February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA > > > Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > > > To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > > > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > > > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* > > February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA > > Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > > To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help > > > > > > -- > ~ will > > "No matter how beautiful, > no matter how cool your interface, > it would be better if there were less of it." > Alan Cooper > - > "Where you innovate, how you innovate, > and what you innovate are design problems" > ------------------------------------------------------- > will evans > user experience architect > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ------------------------------------------------------- > ________________________________________________________________ > *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* > February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA > Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ > > ________________________________________________________________ > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help > ________________________________________________________________ *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ ________________________________________________________________ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
