Karen - I would recommend reading the article in Jon Kolko's book "Thoughts On Interaction Design," by an interaction designer named Ellen Beldner called "Getting Design Done," in which she deals with just that issue of how to work effectively with PMs - especially when they want to own everything in front of requirements gathering - and sometimes wireframes as well. She includes some pretty funny anecdotes about working with some nightmare PMs -
Choice quote: "I quit that job because the PM was a micromanager who didn't know what he was doing. He took no pride in designing the best software possible; he was unwilling to listen to or consider my expertise; and he told me to do things that I thought were professionally unethical [like essentially copying the UI worflows and designs of a direct competitor]." The article is well worth the price of admission - and the rest of the book is very good as well. - Will On Feb 10, 2008 11:30 PM, mark schraad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Karen, > > Over the last couple of months I have been thinking a lot lately > about just this issue. Stemming back a few months when the discussion > was 'who is a designer' in reference to who gets to make design > decisions. I believe that we as designers are painfully cognizent of > where we think design starts, and where our expertise and influence > should be primary. We as designers just do not understand when > product managers and other business managers hire us for our > expertise, pay us a lot of money, and then don't follow our precise > recommendations (or in some cases override our decision). > > I would pose that much of that work... from the business development > staff to the product managers are design decisions. They are also > charged with working to create and develop great product/service... > they just don't call it design. The decision to include a specific > feature, or to meet a certain spec, well - those ARE design decisions. > > Try and look at those as the criteria to which you will design. And, > if a spec or a requirement is not the best approach, it seems to me > perfectly acceptable to challenge that, particularly when acting in > the best interest of results and armed with persuasive logic, > experience and convincing evidence. > > No one is going to say they do not want a better user experience. I > hear product talk about it as if it was 'their' mantra almost daily. > But when push comes to shove, they are tasked with hard short term > metrics that they believe need to be met first and foremost. The user > experience is, it seems, nearly always for sale in a rigidly > structured, metric driven, corporate environment. This is short term > thinking. > > Mark > > > On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:14 AM, karen wrote: > > > I was responding to the Cooper thread but thought this might be a > > different topic. I agree that spending time on the IxD of a product > > before requirements are written in theory should result in a > > stronger, more innovative product. The problem I've run into in my > > last two positions (ecommerce and now, media) is that the product > > analysts/managers view any pre-requirements work as their role. > > They want to do the research, then they write requirements which > > state how the product should be designed and they are the decision > > makers during design. Ultimately, they drive the design. And not > > one of the product folks I've worked with come from the IxD, IA or > > usability arenas. > > > > This is a conflict for me as the product analysts/managers are > > ultimately concerned with driving revenue not UE. Explaining that a > > higher quality UE will increase revenue gets lip service but hasn't > > changed anything. Have any of you had similar experiences? How do > > you handle it? > > > > Thanks for any suggestions, > > Karen > > ________________________________________________________________ > > *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* > > February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA > > Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > > To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help > > ________________________________________________________________ > *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* > February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA > Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ > > ________________________________________________________________ > Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! > To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe > List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines > List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help > -- ~ will "No matter how beautiful, no matter how cool your interface, it would be better if there were less of it." Alan Cooper - "Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems" ------------------------------------------------------- will evans user experience architect [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________ *Come to IxDA Interaction08 | Savannah* February 8-10, 2008 in Savannah, GA, USA Register today: http://interaction08.ixda.org/ ________________________________________________________________ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ....... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
