+1 to Matt, Justin, Greg, and Bill. I would like to see brainstorming on the role of a mentor before we describe how to be a mentor.
I think that attending a workshop at any point is a great step but I think it is preferable for it to happen after the instructor training. This way new instructors can see the techniques they’ve just learned in practice and be more aware of what and why an instructor is doing something. -Azalee On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Matt Davis <[email protected]> wrote: > A small note: I don't think it's particularly important whether in-workshop > experience comes before, after, or during the instructor training. > > - Matt > > On Fri Dec 12 2014 at 2:00:45 PM Bill Mills <[email protected]> > wrote: > Thanks everyone for your comments; three points: > > - There appears to be overwhelming support for starting the instructor > journey the oldschool way - by attending or helping at a workshop. I > also will join the chorus of agreement, since this is certainly the best > way to understand what actually goes on at the event proper. But in that > case, shall we make it official, and promote previous workshop > attendance as a hard requirement for future instructor training? Greg > and I have chatted about this previously, too - perhaps it's time to set > it on the path to enshrinement. > > - As Justin rightly points out: attending a workshop does not address > the problem of increasing new instructors' comfort level *before* they > get in front of that class. The feedback I got from people was that > there was a great deal of uncertainty and anxiety on how to prepare for > their first workshop - unpacking that more could make a much smoother > path for this part of the instructor experience, which many people are > struggling with, and that's what the Welcome Package should try to address. > > - I agree completely with pursuing a more structured mentorship model > - that's what I'd like us to spitball some ideas for in the Mentor's > Guide brainstorm etherpad. It will take some leadership from the > Steering Committee as Greg suggests, but no need to wait for process to > get some thoughts out now! Having that as raw material will help that > future champion hit the ground running with some ideas to start from. > > On 2014-12-12 1:54 PM, Greg Wilson wrote: > > I'm strongly in favor of more structured mentorship - the problem is > > finding time both to set it up and to actually do it. I hope a member > > of the Steering Committee that's to be elected at the end of January > > will take this on as their primary responsibility. > > Cheers, > > Greg > > > > On 2014-12-12 4:42 PM, Justin Kitzes wrote: > >> +1 from me also, although I want to make sure that we don't lose > >> sight of Bill's original question, which was about how to bridge new > >> instructors from post-training to becoming confident independent > >> instructors, not about how to prepare for the training. > >> > >> I've suggested several times, most recently on the SWC blog [1], that > >> we should have a more structured mentorship program for new > >> instructors in which they're guided in person and individually by > >> more experienced instructors. I feel fairly strongly that the > >> mentorship direction that we seem to be headed in by default, which > >> is a mix of conference calls, written post-assessment, and written > >> guide books (see [2] for example), is fundamentally not the right > >> approach. Teaching this stuff is difficult, and I believe that > >> learning to do it requires something closer to an apprenticeship than > >> a distance learning course (e.g., joining a lab to earn a PhD rather > >> than taking a series of MOOCs). > >> > >> I'm not sure why, but I've felt in the past that there wasn't a whole > >> lot of momentum for setting up a structure for this type of "thicker" > >> interaction. (Incidentally, I thought that the need for this was the > >> #1 takeaway from the Building a Better Teacher book that many of us > >> read on Greg's suggestion.) I'm OK if this isn't a direction that we > >> want to go now, but I can't help but continue to think that the > >> issues raised by Bill would be better solved by this approach. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Justin > >> > >> [1]: > >> http://software-carpentry.org/blog/2014/09/further-thoughts-on-better-teachers.html > >> [2]: > >> http://software-carpentry.org/blog/2014/12/plans-for-2015-mentorship-and-assessment.html > >> > >> > >> On Dec 12, 2014, at 1:08 PM, Greg Wilson > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> I'd like to +1 Matt's comment as well -- given how many workshops we > >>> run, and how much demand there is for instructor training, I think > >>> it makes sense to say that people ought to attend or help at a > >>> workshop before starting instructor training. ("Ought to" because > >>> there will always be exceptions: some people have lots of teaching > >>> experience in other grassroots groups, and when we're moving into > >>> new geographical regions, it won't always be possible for people to > >>> attend one before starting training.) > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> On 2014-12-12 3:41 PM, Ted Hart wrote: > >>>> I'll also +1 Matt's comment. Way back in 2012 I attended my first > >>>> SWC workshop hosted by the CS dept at UBC, taught by Greg. I then > >>>> helped organize a couple more where I co-taught with Greg and Ethan > >>>> at different workshops. I had this experience under my belt before > >>>> I began instructor training, I think one of the first that Greg ran > >>>> online. > >>>> > >>>> It seems like path to becoming an instructor is a bit different > >>>> now, starting off with instructor training, and then running a > >>>> workshop. Less of the 'journeyman' system of a few years back. > >>>> And while sending helpers around isn't feasible because of $$, what > >>>> about requiring interested people to organize a workshop and they > >>>> could help, if one isn't already being run locally? After all, it > >>>> was that effect of getting one or two instructors out of each > >>>> locally run workshops that helped us get so many instructors in the > >>>> first place. > >>>> > >>>> Maybe it's not a good idea to take on instructors if they haven't > >>>> at least attended a workshop (I'm not sure how common this is though) > >>>> > >>>> T > >>>> > >>>> On Fri Dec 12 2014 at 12:24:03 PM Kara Woo <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> Helping at real workshops would indeed probably be the best way to > >>>> build experience, but it's not going to be logistically or > >>>> financially feasible for everyone, since as far as I know workshops > >>>> don't typically cover travel costs for helpers. While not a > >>>> substitute for firsthand experience, a network of > >>>> community support and resources for new (and experienced!) > >>>> instructors will definitely help people (or at > >>>> least, me) feel more prepared and confident. > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Marianne Corvellec > >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> Hello, > >>>> > >>>> I would like to +1 Matt's comment. I don't really see how you would > >>>> do without this very natural, gradual, beneficial process. > >>>> > >>>> I know people who have attended, helped and sometimes instructed at > >>>> several workshops but haven't taken the instructor training program > >>>> (yet). So when/if they become Software Carpentry instructors, I think > >>>> the transition will be pretty smooth... > >>>> > >>>> As a new instructor, I don't see how you would want to read a > >>>> guide/manual rather than helping at real workshops, because that's > >>>> when you start feeling useful and you learn a lot and you're not alone > >>>> and that's a great experience. :) > >>>> > >>>> Marianne > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Matt Davis <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> I had one question after reading your post, and that's what role > >>>>> being a > >>>>> workshop helper/assistant has in the instructor on-boarding process? > >>>>> > >>>>> A couple years ago before our explosive growth and the instructor > >>>>> training > >>>>> program, the on-boarding process was (perhaps informally), > >>>>> something like: > >>>>> > >>>>> - attend or be a helper at a workshop > >>>>> - teach at a workshop with an experienced instructor > >>>>> > >>>>> We have different processes and more people now, but you can't > >>>>> discount the > >>>>> value of "learn by doing". > >>>>> > >>>>> - Matt > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri Dec 12 2014 at 10:47:53 AM Bill Mills > >>>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> Hey everyone, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I spoke privately to some of you over the past couple weeks on > >>>>>> what it's > >>>>>> like being a Software Carpentry instructor, particularly a new > >>>>>> instructor - what are the challenges you face, and what can we do to > >>>>>> make your first few workshops a smoother experience? I summarized > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> most popular comments in this blog post: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://mozillascience.org/starting-instruction-feedback-from-the-new-instructor-community/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> One of the main things that came out of this, was a need for a > >>>>>> smoother > >>>>>> on-ramp going from Instructor Training to your first workshop - > >>>>>> what are > >>>>>> the steps involved, how do you prepare, and what are everyone's > >>>>>> responsibilities? To this end, I think it would be valuable if we > >>>>>> created a short Welcome Package explaining these things and > >>>>>> providing > >>>>>> some clear instructions for people, and a Mentor's Guide for more > >>>>>> experienced instructors guiding this process. More details are in > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> blog post, but we're brainstorming ideas for both of these things > >>>>>> in the > >>>>>> following etherpads: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> New Instructor Welcome Package: > >>>>>> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/newInstructorWelcomePackage > >>>>>> Mentor's Guide: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/SWCmentorsGuide > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What do people think? Please jump in and share your thoughts! > >>>>>> Thanks in > >>>>>> advance, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Bill Mills > >>>>>> Community Manager, Mozilla Science Lab > >>>>>> @billdoesphysics > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > >>>> > >>> -- > >>> Dr. Greg Wilson | > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> Software Carpentry | > >>> http://software-carpentry.org > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Discuss mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Discuss mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > >> > > > > -- > Bill Mills > Community Manager, Mozilla Science Lab > @billdoesphysics > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org
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