I tell people that my only CS course was taught in Pascal (this gets a few laughs) and that I don’t remember any of it. I add that learning Pascal set me up to learn pretty much any language I needed much easier than the first time through Pascal. Finally, I point out that they may learn R/Python/Perl/whatever and struggle with weird syntax and quirks of that language, but the real challenge with programming is learning to think through problems.
Pat > On Mar 25, 2016, at 10:27 AM, C. Titus Brown <[email protected]> wrote: > > My only suggestion is to maybe point out that Perl is probably not what his > students will be using once they leave his group. But there are many > good responses to that. He may not care that Perl is not being used in > industry much anymore, either, but I think this is important for people > who don't want to go down the academic trackhole. > > cheers, > --titus > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 07:21:02AM -0700, Steve Haddock wrote: >> To further digress, What can I say to my old-school collaborator who insists >> on teaching his students PERL, de novo? He claims not to like Python's >> cryptic error reporting. (I agree but there is so much to offset this.) I >> have tried everything including translating his code to Python to show how >> much cleaner it is. >> -Steve >> >> ----- q???b ----- >> >> >>> On Mar 25, 2016, at 06:52, C. Titus Brown <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> My usual response to the question of "what programming language should I >>> learn?" is: >>> >>> * Python or R, because those are the two languages being used by many >>> computational scientists, being actively developed, and with rich >>> existing ecosystems of libraries and tutorials; >>> >>> * choose between them based on your local friendly help - if you have >>> a lot of R folk down the hall, learn R, and vice versa; >>> >>> * once you know one, you can pick up another language much more easily than >>> you might believe; >>> >>> cheers, >>> --titus >>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 04:06:12PM -0700, Maria McKinley wrote: >>>> There is also the point of best for what job? Best programming language >>>> discussions are mostly just flame wars, and I like to address them by >>>> saying there is no best programming language; it depends on the knowledge >>>> of the person doing the coding, what they are trying to accomplish, and >>>> possibly the environment/what all is available on the particular machine >>>> that the code will run on. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Maria >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Giuseppe Profiti < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Related, even if not properly in topic. >>>>> While attending the SWC train the trainers course in September, I took >>>>> a note about the "just" and how to keep an I-can-do-it attitude in the >>>>> learners. >>>>> Then, in January, I had the chance to try to be more aware of that >>>>> while teaching Python in a Master's degree course (70-80% of students >>>>> .usually have a background in biology or biotech). >>>>> >>>>> Of course that was a different setting: students believe having more >>>>> time to grasp the material with respect to a short workshop, they may >>>>> be less prone to give up during class, but they could do it anyways or >>>>> maybe give up later when you are not there to answer questions. >>>>> >>>>> Anyways, "what is the best programming language?" is something that >>>>> they asked. I have my programming language of choice, but the >>>>> demotivation section in SWC guidelines helped in devising a better >>>>> answer than "I like that, but you choose whatever you want". >>>>> Instead, I told them that the best programming language is the one >>>>> they feel more comfortable with. That "if", "for" and functions are in >>>>> almost every programming language and that after getting it in python >>>>> they could move to something else. And that if someone in their future >>>>> place of work would tell them "You should use X because is better!", >>>>> they may give it a try, see if they like it and maybe toss it in the >>>>> trash bin if not. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe I was wrong or there may be a better phrased answer. In that >>>>> case, a feedback from you would be more than welcome. >>>>> >>>>> To be in topic: instead of thinking about it as "I must not do that", >>>>> those guidelines could also be used as "how can I convey that >>>>> information in a better and less threatening way?". >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Giuseppe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2016-03-24 22:44 GMT+01:00 Greg Wilson <[email protected]>: >>>>>> One approach is to pre-empt it - I make a point of saying in my intro >>>>> that >>>>>> this stuff is genuinely hard, that I shouldn't imply otherwise by saying >>>>>> "just" (or equivalent), and inviting people to keep score. We can then >>>>>> compare everyone's scores at the first coffee break, and since they're >>>>> never >>>>>> the same, we can then have an interesting discussion about real-world >>>>> data >>>>>> :-) >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Greg >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2016-03-24 5:41 PM, Adam Obeng wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does any one have a tip for how to recover from accidentally doing these >>>>>>> things? I've tried to explain why I'm apologising for saying "just", but >>>>>>> that *just* seems to make it worse. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Adam >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016, at 05:30 PM, Steven Haddock wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I think that is the one. The J-word!! >>>>>>>> Thanks Lex. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 14:22 , Lex Nederbragt <[email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Perhaps this helps? Look for "Things You Shouldn't Do in a Workshop" >>>>> on >>>>>>>>> http://swcarpentry.github.io/instructor-training/09-motivation.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lex >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 24 Mar 2016, at 22:02, Steven Haddock <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> TL;dr Can someone point me to the post about teaching guidelines? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A little while ago Greg or somebody posted a set of examples of >>>>> things >>>>>>>>>> to avoid saying (???You can simply??????, etc). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A friend of mine (really!) is teaching a class and she realized she >>>>>>>>>> should avoid saying ???You have probably all done X?????? so I was >>>>>>>>>> going >>>>> to send >>>>>>>>>> her that post, but I can???t find it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dr Greg Wilson >>>>>> Director of Instructor Training >>>>>> Software Carpentry Foundation >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >>> >>> -- >>> C. Titus Brown, [email protected] >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org >> > > -- > C. Titus Brown, [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org
