My thoughts exactly. Curning is what I use the most and what MS Word knows
the least about. It presents well, but not perfect. This is the program that
I was looking for when producing documents that are better than a sighted
user. Most use Word or Word perfect that gives you that word processing
feeling. Trust me their is a difference. The look of a document shows allot
about the person who is writing it. It is not like a blog post, I am
interested in landing blind and low vision contracts with government
department heads and the only thing they look at is "the documents". If I
can get a edge then I will use it. Being blind does not excuse me as one
blind individual from doing the best that I can do. I can't speak for anyone
else.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Kearney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by
theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
Yes there is a "look" to word processing documents. Even the best word
processors do not do typesetting which is what TeX does. Here are some
points to consider from someone trained in the graphic arts (BFA Design
BYU 980)
Kerning - An almost lost art, kerning is the skill of knowing when and by
how much to move letters closer or further apart from one another. TeX
has very sophisticated kerning control that changes as the type is
increased or decreased in size.
Hyphenation - Word processors hyphenate but true book grade hyphenation
is a skill and science few few if any word processors do at the level TeX
supports. Also there is the matter of the typographic placement of
hyphens. In typesetting the hyphen extends ever so slightly beyond the
right magian of the page.
Ligatures - situations where some combinations of letters are treated as
one ff ffl and so on. There are dozens of these and the rules for when
you use them and when you don't are complex. Some word processor support
ligatures but none know the rules for their application so they will
simply march through a document making substitutions. A related area is
when you use the dot less i and j. TeX knows the rules.
Rivers - quality typesetting of the kind that TeX produces will not have
what are called rivers in the text. It is this quality that your
coworkers are likely noticing even if they do not know the term. A river
occurs on the printed page when spaces between words line up down the
page to produce a visual while line down the page, a river. Typesetters
avoid this by padding the space between letters with bits of lead strips.
When TeX run it sets the page over and over again until it find just the
right amount of adjustment to eliminate rivers.
There are dozens of other typographic techniques that TeX dose as well.
Some of them are rather handy. If you professor or boss wants a 5 page
paper and no more or less you can have TeX take out or add tiny amounts
of space between the letters and the lines to ether stretch or shrink a
document as needed. Unless your professor is a typesetter he will never
notice. I did this a great deal in college.
Greg Kearney
535 S. Jackson St.
Casper, Wyoming 82601
307-224-4022
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sep 20, 2007, at 1:42 PM, James Austin wrote:
My friends tell me that the documents are beautifully formatted, they
do not "look" word processed - whatever that means. Do word processed
documents have a certain "look" to them, can people tell that something
is word processed? just curious.
Thanks
James
On 20 Sep 2007, at 19:16, Dane Trethowan wrote:
Well, I used an Ibook and a Power PC Mac Mini up until 4 weeks ago,
used Nisus and every other damn thing on it <smile>. I must say though
and I hope people don't take any offense at this as I don't mean to be
offensive but how could a blind person produce a document better than a
sighted person can if he cannot see the documents sighted people
produce? Sure, you do the best you can but the claim made here I think
is.... well at best... a little odd.
On 21/09/2007, at 12:50 AM, James Jolley wrote:
To a point but it comes over slightly arrogant.
Just because you can use a word processor or write well doesn't make
you any better than anyone else. Actually, you didn't really need a mac
book pro for VO, I only have the standard mac book and I am doing
perfectly fine.
----- Original Message ----- From: "VaShaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS
Xby theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
What I do is bid on government contracts for local and state scripting
and training work for blind or low vision companies. MS Word has been
great but like I said I spend most of my time formatting documents, as
every bid is different. It is my determination to create documents
better than a sighted person. I don't use word processors to type text
I use it as a vehicle to ensure that we have jobs as blind. I do this
by being the best example through my work. If they looked at my
documents usually about 75 pages and said it was OK to turn in shoddy
work because he is blind. That would infuriate me and make us as a
whole go back a few notches. I am willing to learn whatever is needed
to get ahead. I walked into Micro Center and said give me that big
bad Mac Book Pro, the guy asked if I was doing graphics design or
something. I smiled and told him nope just VO. He said then you don't
need that much computer for that. I said I will master it in two
months and come back and teach you a few things. I say all of that
because I asked for a perfect word processor and it sounds like Latex
is just that. I don't take the easy way out. I hope you understand
what I do and why I do it.
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Jolley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X
by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
Hi Dane,
Yeah it seems odd to me. After all, if Tex is all its cracked up to
be wich it is in it's proper circle, why have screen reader folks
spent all this blody time getting office and other things doable? Why
not have everyone learn tex? After all, this guy who is working for
the government, surely they they should train him on using it then?
On 20 Sep 2007, at 05:20, Dane Trethowan wrote:
Ok, well my only further comment is to go and try these things,
I've made my points as have others, see what you think but again I
will state as others have that it sees odd to me at least that you
have to "learn" how to use a word processor, formatting or no
formatting, reports or no reports etc. I'm curious to know exactly
what you would do that anyone else wouldn't, that is to say what
you would do that any good word processor wouldn't handle.
On 20/09/2007, at 8:52 AM, VaShaun Jones wrote:
Fine for you unfortunately for me. I use every aspect of Windows
imaginable for government reports and contracts and they have to be
perfect. I spend the majority of my time formatting.
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Jolley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac
OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
Well, using TEX for it's intended purpose laying out formulas is
ideal. I still don't see the point in using it to write standard
texts though. Any good word processer will do the job ust as well
to be honest. It's up to yourselves though if you want to jump
through a thousand hoops to write anything I am happy with word or
whatever for standard work.
On 19 Sep 2007, at 21:56, James Austin wrote:
Wow! I have looked at that side of it, and I'm pleased I don't
study maths
On 19 Sep 2007, at 19:59, James Jolley wrote:
It's not that steep I use it all the time for mathematics
On 19 Sep 2007, at 18:18, Greg Kearney wrote:
That's right the learning curve is steep with TeX, the rewards
are well worth it however.
Greg
On Sep 19, 2007, at 11:05 AM, James Austin wrote:
It is free, but please get in touch if you've not used it
before, it is not simply a case of typing as with a word
processor
On 19 Sep 2007, at 17:23, VaShaun Jones wrote:
I think I will be getting Latex . Is it totally accessible
and how much does it cost?
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Austin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
Hi,
Okay, well there is IText Express, a small free word
processing application, similar to Text Edit, which provides
the ability to add footnotes. There is also Nisus Writer
Express, or Nisus Writer Pro, you can find these at
www.nisus.com
Neither Express or Pro are currently 100% usable with VO,
but very nearly. If you were thinking of purchasing Nisus
Writer, I would recommend the Pro version, as that seems
more accessible.
There is also Latex (pronouned Laytech), which is a type-
setin tool. It is extremely powerful and versitle, but does
require time to learn. Although, the benefits are
rewarding, especially for Blind users in my personal
opinion, as I use it exclusively for my University
assignments. I don't want to clutter the list with
discussions about Latex, so please feel free to E Mail me off
list, if you'd like to know more.
Hope this helps
James
On 19 Sep 2007, at 08:55, VaShaun Jones wrote:
Listers somewhere before I got familiar with my Mac their
was a discussion about a professional word processor. I
wanted to know what it was and how can I get it? Note: one
of its liked features is that you don't have to worry
about formatting (a lister reported).
******************************
Dane Trethowan
From Melton Victoria Australia
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone uk 0121 288 4976
Phone/tty (+61 3) 9747 975
Fax +61 3 9743 7954
mobile/sms: +61425 777 508
Skype: callto:grtdane12
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Dane Trethowan
From Melton Victoria Australia
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone uk 0121 288 4976
Phone/tty (+61 3) 9747 975
Fax +61 3 9743 7954
mobile/sms: +61425 777 508
Skype: callto:grtdane12
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