Well again this is just a suspician but I think that feature must be
built-in somehow to the Mac Operating system as all Word Processors
etc I've seen on the Mac support it, even Nisus <smile>.
On 21/09/2007, at 6:47 AM, VaShaun Jones wrote:
My thoughts exactly. Curning is what I use the most and what MS Word
knows the least about. It presents well, but not perfect. This is the
program that I was looking for when producing documents that are
better than a sighted user. Most use Word or Word perfect that gives
you that word processing feeling. Trust me their is a difference. The
look of a document shows allot about the person who is writing it. It
is not like a blog post, I am interested in landing blind and low
vision contracts with government department heads and the only thing
they look at is "the documents". If I can get a edge then I will use
it. Being blind does not excuse me as one blind individual from doing
the best that I can do. I can't speak for anyone else.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Kearney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS
X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
Yes there is a "look" to word processing documents. Even the best
word processors do not do typesetting which is what TeX does. Here
are some points to consider from someone trained in the graphic
arts (BFA Design BYU 980)
Kerning - An almost lost art, kerning is the skill of knowing when
and by how much to move letters closer or further apart from one
another. TeX has very sophisticated kerning control that changes
as the type is increased or decreased in size.
Hyphenation - Word processors hyphenate but true book grade
hyphenation is a skill and science few few if any word processors
do at the level TeX supports. Also there is the matter of the
typographic placement of hyphens. In typesetting the hyphen
extends ever so slightly beyond the right magian of the page.
Ligatures - situations where some combinations of letters are
treated as one ff ffl and so on. There are dozens of these and the
rules for when you use them and when you don't are complex. Some
word processor support ligatures but none know the rules for their
application so they will simply march through a document making
substitutions. A related area is when you use the dot less i and
j. TeX knows the rules.
Rivers - quality typesetting of the kind that TeX produces will
not have what are called rivers in the text. It is this quality
that your coworkers are likely noticing even if they do not know
the term. A river occurs on the printed page when spaces between
words line up down the page to produce a visual while line down
the page, a river. Typesetters avoid this by padding the space
between letters with bits of lead strips. When TeX run it sets the
page over and over again until it find just the right amount of
adjustment to eliminate rivers.
There are dozens of other typographic techniques that TeX dose as
well. Some of them are rather handy. If you professor or boss wants
a 5 page paper and no more or less you can have TeX take out or
add tiny amounts of space between the letters and the lines to
ether stretch or shrink a document as needed. Unless your
professor is a typesetter he will never notice. I did this a great
deal in college.
Greg Kearney
535 S. Jackson St.
Casper, Wyoming 82601
307-224-4022
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sep 20, 2007, at 1:42 PM, James Austin wrote:
My friends tell me that the documents are beautifully formatted,
they do not "look" word processed - whatever that means. Do word
processed documents have a certain "look" to them, can people
tell that something is word processed? just curious.
Thanks
James
On 20 Sep 2007, at 19:16, Dane Trethowan wrote:
Well, I used an Ibook and a Power PC Mac Mini up until 4 weeks
ago, used Nisus and every other damn thing on it <smile>. I must
say though and I hope people don't take any offense at this as I
don't mean to be offensive but how could a blind person produce
a document better than a sighted person can if he cannot see
the documents sighted people produce? Sure, you do the best you
can but the claim made here I think is.... well at best... a
little odd.
On 21/09/2007, at 12:50 AM, James Jolley wrote:
To a point but it comes over slightly arrogant.
Just because you can use a word processor or write well doesn't
make you any better than anyone else. Actually, you didn't
really need a mac book pro for VO, I only have the standard mac
book and I am doing perfectly fine.
----- Original Message ----- From: "VaShaun Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
llc.com
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS Xby theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
What I do is bid on government contracts for local and state
scripting and training work for blind or low vision companies.
MS Word has been great but like I said I spend most of my time
formatting documents, as every bid is different. It is my
determination to create documents better than a sighted person.
I don't use word processors to type text I use it as a vehicle
to ensure that we have jobs as blind. I do this by being the
best example through my work. If they looked at my documents
usually about 75 pages and said it was OK to turn in shoddy
work because he is blind. That would infuriate me and make us
as a whole go back a few notches. I am willing to learn
whatever is needed to get ahead. I walked into Micro Center and
said give me that big bad Mac Book Pro, the guy asked if I was
doing graphics design or something. I smiled and told him nope
just VO. He said then you don't need that much computer for
that. I said I will master it in two months and come back and
teach you a few things. I say all of that because I asked for a
perfect word processor and it sounds like Latex is just that. I
don't take the easy way out. I hope you understand what I do
and why I do it.
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Jolley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
Hi Dane,
Yeah it seems odd to me. After all, if Tex is all its cracked
up to be wich it is in it's proper circle, why have screen
reader folks spent all this blody time getting office and
other things doable? Why not have everyone learn tex? After
all, this guy who is working for the government, surely they
they should train him on using it then?
On 20 Sep 2007, at 05:20, Dane Trethowan wrote:
Ok, well my only further comment is to go and try these
things, I've made my points as have others, see what you think
but again I will state as others have that it sees odd to me
at least that you have to "learn" how to use a word
processor, formatting or no formatting, reports or no reports
etc. I'm curious to know exactly what you would do that
anyone else wouldn't, that is to say what you would do that
any good word processor wouldn't handle.
On 20/09/2007, at 8:52 AM, VaShaun Jones wrote:
Fine for you unfortunately for me. I use every aspect of
Windows imaginable for government reports and contracts and
they have to be perfect. I spend the majority of my time
formatting.
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Jolley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
Well, using TEX for it's intended purpose laying out
formulas is ideal. I still don't see the point in using it
to write standard texts though. Any good word processer will
do the job ust as well to be honest. It's up to yourselves
though if you want to jump through a thousand hoops to write
anything I am happy with word or whatever for standard work.
On 19 Sep 2007, at 21:56, James Austin wrote:
Wow! I have looked at that side of it, and I'm pleased I
don't study maths
On 19 Sep 2007, at 19:59, James Jolley wrote:
It's not that steep I use it all the time for mathematics
On 19 Sep 2007, at 18:18, Greg Kearney wrote:
That's right the learning curve is steep with TeX, the
rewards are well worth it however.
Greg
On Sep 19, 2007, at 11:05 AM, James Austin wrote:
It is free, but please get in touch if you've not used it
before, it is not simply a case of typing as with a word
processor
On 19 Sep 2007, at 17:23, VaShaun Jones wrote:
I think I will be getting Latex . Is it totally
accessible and how much does it cost?
----- Original Message ----- From: "James Austin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the
use of Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: MS Word alternative
Hi,
Okay, well there is IText Express, a small free word
processing application, similar to Text Edit, which
provides the ability to add footnotes. There is also
Nisus Writer Express, or Nisus Writer Pro, you can
find these at
www.nisus.com
Neither Express or Pro are currently 100% usable with
VO, but very nearly. If you were thinking of
purchasing Nisus Writer, I would recommend the Pro
version, as that seems more accessible.
There is also Latex (pronouned Laytech), which is a
type- setin tool. It is extremely powerful and
versitle, but does require time to learn. Although,
the benefits are rewarding, especially for Blind users
in my personal opinion, as I use it exclusively for my
University assignments. I don't want to clutter the
list with discussions about Latex, so please feel free
to E Mail me off list, if you'd like to know more.
Hope this helps
James
On 19 Sep 2007, at 08:55, VaShaun Jones wrote:
Listers somewhere before I got familiar with my Mac
their was a discussion about a professional word
processor. I wanted to know what it was and how can I
get it? Note: one of its liked features is that you
don't have to worry about formatting (a lister
reported).
******************************
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From Melton Victoria Australia
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone uk 0121 288 4976
Phone/tty (+61 3) 9747 975
Fax +61 3 9743 7954
mobile/sms: +61425 777 508
Skype: callto:grtdane12
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Dane Trethowan
From Melton Victoria Australia
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone uk 0121 288 4976
Phone/tty (+61 3) 9747 975
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Skype: callto:grtdane12
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Dane Trethowan
From Melton Victoria Australia
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone uk 0121 288 4976
Phone/tty (+61 3) 9747 975
Fax +61 3 9743 7954
mobile/sms: +61425 777 508
Skype: callto:grtdane12
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