Actually those items are called "popup button" by Voiceover. In Tiger,
you'd hear the multi-select lists called "scroll area" and then you
would focus on that to hear "table" and would focus on the table which
had a single column and pick your selection or selections. You could
have also selected the "scroll bar" object located next to that table
if you really wanted too for some reason. Now in Leopard, those tables
are not accessible. I administrate webhosting using a great web
interface called cpanel. To edit a DNS record for example, I choose a
link called "Edit DNS Zone" to use that tool. In another frame the
tool opens. I then have the ability to select the zone to edit from
one of those objects that displays a list with scroll bar on the
right. Visually, you see a scrollable list, and if you click an item
it selects in a blue color. Voiceover would say "Select a domain"
followed by another object "scroll area" and when I would interact
with that I'd hear "table" and "scrollbar." If I then interacted with
that table, I could treat it just like the table in mail messages or
anywhere else you encounter tables.
In Leopard, I hear the text to select a domain, but the "scroll area"
is now replaced by Voiceover stating "HTML area." If I try to interact
with that, I get thrown completely out of the HTML view of Safari all
together and I have to interact with the main HTML area again, find my
frame, and find where I was within that frame.
A work around would have been pressing tab to jump to a specific form
item, such as that multi-select list. The issue here is that it does
happen visually, but Voiceover remains silent. Let's say I've grabbed
some visual assistance and I've been told my tabbing has now lit up
the first item in a multi-select list. This is good, now I use simply
my plain arrow keys to move up and down through my domains. Well,
visually the selection moves up and down, but I hear nothing from
Voiceover at all. It still has its focus somewhere else, and if I move
the VOiceover cursor with keyboard tracking turned on by default, my
keyboard focus is stolen from that list and brought to wherever
Voiceover was at the time. Nasty, just nasty.
I hope this clears things up a whole lot for everyone. Now, try it
out. Get some visual assistance from a friend or family member and
visit one of the sites I suggested before. Try disneyjobs.com and try
clicking the openings link. Then, ask them to describe the search form
in detail. It contains tables of states, cities, job type, etc. To
voiceover, you'll be able to read those descriptors since they're just
text. You will not, however, be capable of doing anything but a
keyword search.So, if you wanted to work for ABC, ESPN, or Disney in
Chicago, you can't narrow down the city list to Chicago, and the state
to Illinois. I really do want others to try this and discover it.
The final word, this is one of those bugs that can go unfixed if not
caught. This is because if your screen reader doesn't read you
something, how do you know you missed anything? So unless you know
from previous experience that something's up, you'll think everything
is just as it should be. That is, until someone with vision points out
what you've missed. Then you feel quite cheated.
Ryan
On Nov 1, 2007, at 8:27 PM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
HTML includes select boxes where you can pick one item and select
boxes
where you can pick multiple items. Your report is a bit confusing
because you refer to "multi-select list boxes" but go on to give
selecting your state from a select control as an example: presumably
you
only have the one state. So I gather you're experiencing problems with
select boxes generally. The examples you've given are quite complex
pages, so I've created an extremely simple test case at:
http://benjaminhawkeslewis.com/www/test-cases/simple-select.php
Are you able to select your favorite fruit from the list and submit
the
form? You should get returned a page that tells you which fruit you
selected. If not, can you please describe the keys you're pressing and
what happens when you press them? (I'd test this myself, but I don't
have Leopard and won't have it any time soon.)
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Ryan Dour wrote:
Hello,
Everyone click the following two links and discover the horrifying
result. You will not be able to complete these forms. This is due
to a lack of support for multi-select list boxes. As you could
imagine, this hurts Voiceover in a very significant way. I could
forgive application specific access issues, but this one if not
fixed will hurt the entire community for surfing the web effectively.
https://disney.recruitmax.com/main/careerportal/default.cfm?szUniqueCareerPortalID=d806a3ad-06f5-4622-b614-74475b752e8e&szIsJobBoard=0
That's a Disney job site. Try and find a job by picking your
state, town, or any combination of those. Good luck. Now try it
under Tiger. Works perfectly. We've taken a major step backwards.
http://www.vonage.com/vaccess
Try and find a local Vonage VAccess number near you. Those let you
dial a local Vonage nunber and call your friends who have Vonage.
You can select by location. Try that out, enter your area code.
Then try and select the "town" you're near to. Good luck again. Now
try it with Tiger.
Finally, try using Apple's own job board and try selecting
California. Now try and select a city to narrow down your search.
Good luck, you can't.
I've never posted something in this form with this level of
attitude. This is so important that if not fixed, it will cause
major damage to the reputation of Voiceover.
Everyone fill out bug reports at developer.apple.com or email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and let them know the massive impact this will have on your
surfability. Find other sites to use as examples. If this isn't
fixed soon I'd hate to see the opinions of those out there who will
be reviewing Voiceover for its access ability.
Thanks,
Ryan Dour
815-308-7607
