Hi Cara and List, I found your comments to be very thought provoking.
I do hope to get a Mac soon, and am absolutely sure that Apple is committed to screen access and will continue to improve. Chris -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of VaShaun Jones Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:30 AM To: General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by the blind Subject: Re: How usable is Leopard actually? My sentiments exactly. On Nov 13, 2007, at 9:23 AM, Cara Quinn wrote: > Hi Christian, just to address a few of your points, as far as > security goes, I personally haven't seen all that much that needs > addressing by Apple aside, of course, from the recent talk of the > virus on some porn sights which a user would need to actively allow > to install, and I believe there are a few others out there, but not > many, to be sure. However, other listers who've kept up with this > sort of thing would most certainly be able to speak more on this, > I'm sure... > > As far as SW development, I'm not set up to do so yet on this > MacBook, but should be, relatively soon, so will keep you / the > list, up to date with my experiences... > > RE: E-mail / web browsing; My personal experiences with Mail, as it > relates to Apple Mail, which I like a whole lot btw, have been very > good. I'm a eudora user on the windows side and really need to deal > with high volume quickly. Mail allows me to do this, much the same > as Eudora but with *much* more stability and with some very nice > additional / useful features. VO works *very* well in context with > Mail, however there are a couple of aspects of it (VO) that are a > bit unwieldy in my opinion, but I'll get into that below. > > So on to browsing then; I'm quite impressed with Safari and > particularly it's download speeds for web pages. So far, for my own > uses, I'm able to access the content I need, with a semblance of the > speed I'd be able to with JFW / IE, but it's somewhat cumbersome > with VO, though I need to be clear here and say that I think the > improvements with Leopard in this regard are absolutely worth the > upgrade, aside of course, from the recent talk of the form > oversight... I do think that that particular bug will probably be > going away soon though, as it seems Apple is doing it right in terms > of taking care of issues and creating useable and intelligent > upgrades though... So we'll see... > > So the reason I say browsing in my opinion, is a bit cumbersome, is > partially because of my own personal browsing style as well as my > general style of working with a computer / screen reader combo. so > take from this, what you will. :) > > VO in my opinion, is both amazingly powerful and annoyingly > cumbersome. I have been an Outspoken for Windows user for a while, > before I switched to JFW. (because it is the only screen reader > which gave me enough access to flash content for my work) In my > experience with OSW, I really loved the way it relied heavily on the > mouse cursor and physical layouts of windows. i was able to have > access to apps that people swore up and down, were *totally* > inaccessible. In my opinion, VO allows quite a bit of this same > flexibility in the way it shows the info in a window, both in the > sense of showing the 'visual' layout and also synopsizing the > sections of a window into elements and areas that can be interacted > with if a user chooses to. > > This is an absolutely wonderful approach to dealing with layout in > my opinion, and one which I'm really looking forward to seeing how > it develops further... > > For one thing, having access to tool bars for apps on a regular > basis is awesome! I use them all the time!... > > Now, I do feel that the actual way in which this is implemented > needs to be tweaked a bit, as it sometimes seems a bit flakey / > unpredictable, which is partially why I say browsing can be a bit > slower. I may go to a particular page, that I frequent, but instead > of being placed into the content area, as I usually might be, I may > instead, need to actively interact with said content. So this > unpredictable behavior I feel, needs to be fine tuned a bit... > > It can cause me to get lost a little, and for doing something like > browsing, that's not always a real good thing! lol! It can really > be a pain when you're trying to get something done quickly... :) > > the other annoyance with Safari / VO (and this is a biggie for me) > is that as yet, it will not read a web page straight through, which, > in my opinion, is simply a must have in the long term for me to feel > comfortable browsing... > > this seems to be simply something that apple will need to look into > if it is to be resolved, and I do feel that this will be resolved. > Again, this is just my own style of browsing but for me that's > pretty important. <smile> :) > > Now, as I'd mentioned above with Mail; while the interaction issue > is not nearly as flakey, it still does crop up from time to time, > but doesn't slow me down nearly as much as with Safari, but I still > feel it could be a bit better... > > So my other issue with VO, really comes from my own personal style > of working with a computer, in the sense that I absolutely > *can*not*stand*key*commands*!!!!!!! :) lol! Other than the > occasional short cut to a mail box or such, I really despise having > to remember / think of hot keys or key combos or anything relating > to a command line to get something done quickly! lol! > > I love a GUI with menus and buttons with big happy friendly words > and phrases on them to tell me exactly what they do! so I'm very > much a visual user in the non-visual realm so to speak. > <smile> :) I love the mouse, I love to know what a window looks > like, and I love being able to simply move a cursor somewhere and > click on something in the simplest and quickest way possible... > > So, a downfall for me, with VO, is that in my opinion, it has some > extremely cumbersome / complex key commands. Just the command to > click on something can take three keys at least. Now, having said > this, one can lock two of those keys, which is a *huge* help, and a > saving grace for me,but there are still way to many keystrokes for > my comfort. > > Now, I am still learning VO, and there certainly may be a few ways > of doing things with it that may be easier, which I haven't found > yet, and I'm sure that it will continue to be streamlined and > developed further, which I'm *really* looking forward to, as it's > mouse support now is very , very good. So even with my above > comments, I am feeling very positive about VO and where it's heading > and the level of access it's enabling. So as I said, please do take > what you like from this. <smile> :) > > I do hope my note helps you out, and please do feel free to send > along further questions if you'd like... > > Have an awesome day and chat with you soon!... > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > > > On Nov 11, 2007, at 10:02 PM, Christian Gerhardt wrote: > >> Good morning folks, >> >> I am following your discussions and flamings about how usable >> leopard might >> be, but I can't see anyone telling what really works and what not. >> Althoug flmae wars might be amusing, it is of little help for those >> who try >> to decide buying a mac machine. I could go to an apple store and >> ask them, >> but I don't expect them to know the grade of accessibility and I >> wouldn't >> ask someone who wants to sell me something about it :-) >> >> So I ask you all... do you feel able to work with leopard daily and >> are you >> able to solve _all_ your computing problems with the system? Is >> someone >> willing to be honest and tell potential new mac users what they can >> expect? >> >> And would you please don't stop people saying what they do not like >> about >> the system. Noone can build his opinion if 'negative' statements are >> supressed. I suppose it to be counter productive and I suppose >> further that >> this is not, what people want inside this community, but maybe I am >> wrong. >> I want the _real_ picture or at least the picture about leopard >> that is as >> real as possible :-) >> >> Special points of interest concerning your most wanted answers are: >> >> -handling of security holes (how long does it take apple to fix >> issues) >> -accessibility of web browsing with safari >> -accessibility of mail using s/mime >> -support of IDEs (software development) >> >> and of course everything you might consider interesting :-) >> >> _every_ response (spam excluded) is most appreciated. >> Regards, >> Christian >> >> > > >
