Hi Søren, 

You wrote:
>Thank you so much. Command up and down arrow works. I'm wandering why  
>they also have made VO commands for that.
>
>Best regards
>Søren Jensen

Command up and down arrow to go to the beginning and and end of a 
document in TextEdit and using these in combination with the shift key
to select parts of a document are part of the general (non-VoiceOver
specific) set of keyboard shortcuts that work in TextEdit, Mail, and the
terminal.  As Greg described in his post, these are a subset of the 
commands that are used in the emacs editor, so users who are
familiar with unix or linux, and have used their editors (emacs and
vi) both in regular editing and on the command line of terminal, may
be familiar with this syntax.  The emacs key bindings can do much 
more than simple navigation and insertion/deletion of text. 

I think one of the reasons there are specific VoiceOver commands is
simply the issue of standardization and optimizing command selection
for multiple keyboards. For example, the standard convention for 
VoiceOver is to apply these commands when you interact.  Sometimes
you can apply commands without interacting with text, but common
problems that new users have -- such as reading an entire document
in TextEdit but then losing their place if interrupted -- do not occur if
you have first interacted with the text.  The VoiceOver commands have
other consequences for behavior or cursor tracking etc. in that 
environment.  I suspect that Anne's question about whether you 
were interacting when you failed to get the VO-keys-FN-Shift-Left
and Right arrow keys to take you to the start and end of your document
may be key.  Another problem is the issue of choosing key commands 
that are easily used from multiple keyboards for VoiceOver.  A third
issue is that it could be quite confusing to wander into the much larger
set of commands that have (for most users) obscure usage.

>When using the danish keyboard layout, it's impossible to use VO \.  
>The \ sign is made by pressing option shift 7. If I go into the VO  
>help, I can use the command anyway, but it's annoying the command  
>doesn't work.
>What does the VO virtical line command do?
>

The vertical line is used for the sort command, and this command is 
VO-keys-Shift-backslash on US keyboards. The vertical line key is
at the right edge of the US and UK keyboards, just below the delete
key and above the carriage return key.  This is the backslash key 
when pressed without a shift key, and a vertical line key when 
shifted.  I found I could check the Danish keyboard layout by checking
the box for this option under the input menu tab of the International
menu under system preferences.  Then, when I use VO-keys-m twice
to move to the part of my menu bar that gives status of wireless 
connections and battery power, and right arrow to Text Input to 
choose the Danish input keyboard, I can type these keys in TextEdit
and have VoiceOver identify the corresponding characters.

If you are in list view under Finder, or are in the Songs outline of 
iTunes, issuing the VO-keys-shift-backslash (or VO vertical line)
on a US or UK keyboard should sort the items by that column header.
A second VO-keys-shift-backslash reverses the sort order from 
ascending to descending.  For example, I might use this if I 
were on the column that shows "Date Modified" and wanted to
find the most recently modified files in the folder at the top of my
list.  In iTunes, I might use this to sort on the Album field to ensure
that my tracks appear in the order they appear on a CD album.

There's a work-around to sort on columns by using Mouse Keys,
but it's somewhat tedious.  You can also activate sort on a column
if you click on the column header.  In iTunes, I would have to check
on my mouse cursor position by using VO-keys+F5 (or VO-keys-FN
F5 on my laptop). If I've interacted with the songs outline, and am
on row 1 in a given column, and have either routed my mouse
cursor to my VoiceOver cursor or have checked "Mouse cursor
tracks VoiceOver Cursor" in the VoiceOver navigation options, 
then pressing VO-keys+F5 twice will tell me the first what is under
the mouse (e.g., the text field) and second what the mouse cursor
position is in x and y screen units.  (This depends on the resolution
of your display, and differs for each computer).  So, if I VO-keys+down
arrow to row 2 and use VO-keys+F5 again, I can determine there
is a difference of 17 screen units in y between each row.

I have set up Mouse keys to turn on and off when the option key is
pressed 5 times quickly in succession.  (This is a checkbox on the
Mouse & Trackpad tab of the Universal Access menu under System
Preferences).  If I position my mouse cursor on row one in the
iTunes songs outline in the column I wish to sort on, I can turn on
mouse keys (press option keys 5 times quickly in succession),
then hold down the FN key (since this is a laptop) and tap the
"8" key 17 times to move my mouse cursor up 17 screen units in y 
from the current position.  (On a full keyboard you would simply
use the numeric keypad without the FN key, I think).  Then I would
turn off Mouse keys by pressing the option key 5 times quickly in
succession.  I could use VO-keys+F5 (or VO-keys+FN+F5 on a
laptop) twice to check that my mouse cursor had, indeed, been
moved up 17 screen units in y from the row 1 position.  Then I 
could click (with either VO-keys shift space or by clicking the
trackpad key on my laptop) on the column header to sort on that
column in ascending order.   A second click generally reverses
the sort order to descending order.

One oddity is that if you click on the header column for "Album"
this way in the iTunes songs outline, it cycles between "Album",
"Album by Artist", and "Album by Year".  "Album by Year" sorts
albums by artist with albums ordered according to the year, 
while Album by Artist sorts albums by artist.

As far as I know, if you can't use the VO-keys-vertical line sort
command, you might have to use Mouse Keys to sort columns.
Anne might have another solution.

Another question:  we often use Command-accent (where accent
is "accent grave" and is located at the left end of the keyboard
just below the escape key and above the tab key on US keyboards)
to cycle between the different windows of an application.  Does
this work on the Danish keyboard? This key appears to have 
the less than symbol on the Danish keyboard.

Also, you had asked earlier about not being able to use the 
Command-right bracket and Command-left bracket keyboard
shortcuts to open and close all podcast folders at once (when
positioned on a podcast folder in the songs outline of iTunes).
These keys are to the right of  the "p" key on a US keyboard:
left bracket, right bracket, and back slash (all unshifted).
On a Danish keyboard this is a-ring, dieresis (also the accent
for the umlaut in German) and accent in the same locations.
 
HTH

Cheers,

Esther

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