[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Shoshannah Forbes wrote:
On 24/01/2005, at 08:06, Daniel Carrera wrote:
IfYou are talking about Windows/Linux here. One of the annoying things about the X11 version of OpenOffice under OSX is the fact that "Exit" is under the file menu, and not under the program menu.
everyone expects to see "File > Exit", it would be *bad* to remove the
Exit entry from the File menu and put it under a new "Program" menu, even
if "logically", a "Program" menu would make more sense.
Amazing... So Apple programs have a "Program" menu with an "Exit" entry?
That's fantastic.
Well - close. What it is, under Aqua, the latest OS X interface, every program has a menu choice that is named after the program itself. In fact, that is how you tell which program is currently selected. Like right now, I'm using Netscape, so the menu option next to the apple says "Netscape". If I click there, it says "About Netscape" (so the "about" isn't under "Help" or "Tools" or "Options" where I have seen it put in other programs) "Preferences" (which is options, preferences, and properties combined) "Services" (which is the menu of Apple utilities that I can use *with* Netscape, like a screen capture util. called Grab, scripting stuff, etc) "Hide Netscape", "Hide Others", "Show All", (Mac has a Minimize, which places the current window as an icon in the "Dock" at the bottom of the screen - the "Hide" feature makes all of the windows for the current application completely disappear. The Icon for the *program* is still in the Dock and marked, so you can click on it to reopen the window - or you can retrieve all closed windows by clicking "Show All" in any program's menu, or you can Apple-Tab through your programs until you find it, or there are other ways to find it. Obviously "Hide Netscape" would hide Netscape, "Hide Others" makes all of the other applications hide, and show all brings every application out of hiding.) And the final menu option in the "Netscape" menu is "Quit Netscape" which closes the program. I really like this setup on a Mac --- however, trying to use it on any other OS would be meet with confusion and fear. On Mac Aqua, it's standard practice. All programs operate pretty much the same way. (Some add additional menu options to their self-titled menu option, but all of them have at least the options I've explained, unless there are not any "Preferences" to set).
Although I am a power user, I still tend to get lots in KDE's preferences, while in Gnome I find that the preferences I change often are right there in CUI, not cluttered by other stuff, while the things I change rarely are easily accessible via gconf.
My feeling exactly. I'm a big Gnome fan for that reason. I don't get lost on Gnome, I find the stuff I need easily. And I still have GConf for the times when I'm in the mood for "configuretainment" :-)
I don't know about KDE and Gnome (not enough of a Linux user to appreciate the differences in their approach to preference setting) - but I do know that Firefox's approach to setting preferences (or options, or properties, or settings, or whatever) is *Far* better than Mozilla's. Mozilla's settings are complex and confusing. Firefox's are much cleaner, and things are grouped by use, not by some programmer's idea of a flowchart.
For example, if I want to erase the history of where I've been online, I have to go to three different places on Mozilla. Navigator>History for the History and Location Bar settings, Privacy & Security>Cookies to remove the cookies, and Advanced>Cache to clear the Cache....
Now, on top of me going to three difference places, the number of buttons I have to press in order to do that is even more. It takes me 19 clicks to clear all that (counting the opening of each menu tab, and confirming everything, and closing all the open dialog boxes, etc.)
On Firefox, all of those options (and more - like saved passwords and form info) is in one place, called "Privacy" - and it took me all of 6 clicks to clear them all. That's counting an extra click, in case you had changed another setting before, and the preferences didn't automatically go to "Privacy".
It's less than one-third of the number of clicks (and if you wanted to erase the saved form info and the saved passwords it would be more on Mozilla) and you get more done. Plus it makes more sense, and is easier to find everything. - Plus it looks *SO* much nicer on the screen.
I use this example because I think most people on this list are familiar with both Firefox and Mozilla - and it's an example where the same group of people, the same community, the same project, were able to completely re-work the dialog boxes to a much better design.
A better example would be Safari, Mac's default included browser. It simply has a menu option in the "Safari" menu called "Reset Safari" which does all of that stuff. It's a total of 3 clicks there. Safari > Reset Safari > "Ok" to confirm.... Done.
To me, this particular feature should be a button or a menu option, because it's something that many people do often enough to merit space on the menu bar, or even a button (which, I believe one of Firefox's extensions does for you). But the point is, and I'm getting off track, reworking the whole preferences idea is possible, profitable, and needed.
- Chad Smith
