On Friday, December 06, 2013 20:33:52 Justin Herman wrote: > First want to say that everyone I have ever met at synhak is cool. > > This is my POV so please take the little it is worth. > > > I would like to make it clear that I never intended to cause someone to be > upset by donating equipment. BUT I did donate it to SynHak not an > individual. I hope that everyone can understand the difference.
You did. It went into SYNHAK's pile of hackable equipment. In the future, please let discuss@ know in advance and put some other sign on them if you don't want donations to be hacked, but have a specific purpose in mind. If no specific purpose is in mind, please ask discuss@ to see what people would want to do with them. Otherwise, that entire junk pile is fair game to all members of the hacker community, excluding those who have been banned from participating. > > If the items were deemed limbo property when given, they are NOT a > charitable gift. I do feel that synhak should help others with equipment > either by releasing it to individuals (selling and/or giving), Loaning > (under the membership loan a tool plan), or retaining it for a fixed > community resource (like the welder or lathe or 3d Printer) While the junk pile /is/ free for anyone to take things from, they should only be taken out of the junk pile for the purpose of making. If someone takes it and uses it wholesale for their personal gain, thats not excellent. If someone wants to make or learn with what they see, they should be free to do so. That is SYNHAK's purpose. I'd consider that a charitable gift since it furthers SYNHAK's mission of providing to the general public and environment to "provide an environment for people to educate, create, and share amongst themselves and others within the domains of technology, art and science." > > When I donate items to synhak I donate them to strengthen the hackerspace > community. I know that others (like Omar and others) will take the precious > time to sift through it and determine a good communal use. This communal > use may support others to come to the space work on projects and provide > their support. Together we all support each other. Just so its clear, the hackerspace community is a lot more than the 16 members who pay dues. The discuss list has over 100 subscribers, and our meetings regularly get 25+ people showing up. > > I see no reason that if a certain widget/part/item would help you in a > personal project why synhak (as a voting membership) would not grant that > property to be yours forever. BUT I don't assume anything (except > consumables and items deemed JUNK) as to mine when I visit the space. I > have access to them, can use them (if trained) but I don't own them. There is a difference between property being dropped off in the junk pile and being directly integrated into the infrastructure of the hackerspace. > > When I loan items to synhak (large fans and future items) I entrust the > community to be excellent and treat them like they would other more > expensive items (powertools, 3d printer, lathe) > > I hope everyone understands the place I am coming from even if you don't > see it the same way. I'm not sure you and I share the same definitions, so please tell me if I'm misunderstanding: "Hackerspace community", n - The people who use SYNHAK to be creative, whether it is through mailing list discussions, IRC conversations, experimenting with homebrewing, attending a class, or sharing ideas at a meeting. Able to exercise do-ocracy within the bounds of "Be Excellent to Each Other". Don't even need to be citizens of Earth, or biological constructs. "SYNHAK member", n - A subset of the above that has gone through the membership process. Doesn't get any special rights beyond being permitted to participate in our governance process through consensus, acceptance of new members to the governance process, holding office, key access, and minimal storage. "Donating to SYNHAK", v - Giving property to SYNHAK that further enables the organization's mission to provide an environment for people to educate, create, and share amongst themselves and others within the domains of technology, art, and science. "Tax deductable donation", n - A donation to SYNHAK that gets a reciept in return, and should be handled through the Treasurer. > > /end rant > > Much Love > > Justin > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Torrie Fischer <[email protected]>wrote: > > On Friday, December 06, 2013 15:43:22 Omar Rassi wrote: > > > Philip, > > > > > > First, you are right about the confusion about the junk pile and > > > > donations > > > > > pile. I discussed this with a Champion and we are clarifying this VERY > > > > soon > > > > > because it is very important to avoid this kind of confusion. Second, to > > > dispel any feeling that anyone was worried about you, that is false, I > > > > put > > > > > it back in the storage room because that is our storage room for member > > > projects and synhak property. The recent donations had not gone their > > > because they had not been sorted yet. > > > > Except it isn't SYNHAK property. It is stuff that *nobody* wants to do > > anything with. If someone claims something from the donation pile, then > > they > > are free to do whatever they want with it, but it needs to leave that > > area. If > > their next step is to fit it into SYNHAK's infrastructure, then it remains > > SYNHAK's. > > > > If their next step is to make something, then I feel that they're free to > > claim it as their own, *regardless of membership status*. Seriously, you > > don't > > need to be a member to stop in one day of the year and happen to see the > > exact > > hardware that you need to finish your project. > > > > We are an infrastructure provider for creative people. Part of that > > infrastructure is having a physical location for people to drop off unused > > equipment and others to use it to continue to create. > > > > We are not an infrastructure provider for members of SYNHAK. Members of > > SYNHAK > > support the hackerspace. They are not the hackerspace. They provide the > > funds > > to keep the lights on and have the right to shape the space through direct > > involvement, as opposed to trying to convince someone who can to do it for > > them. > > > > > I was not able to get to the rest of the computing equipment until the > > > festivities were over and I have done so, though the desktops have not > > > > yet > > > > > been looked at. I have no issues with helping anyone with their computer > > > equipment and answering questions and I am more than happy to help you > > > > with > > > > > your HP as I'm an experience repair technician however, that particular > > > > HP > > > > > that was in the donation pile is of great use to synhak and should not > > > > have > > > > > been left at the junk pile (the differentiation between junk and > > > > donations > > > > > will be rectified). > > > > > > Of the donation of those computer equipment, I have already identified > > > > some > > > > > things that going right back to the junk pile as it is just too old to > > > be > > > of use to synhak, newer equipment may be put to use as a computer, for a > > > project or resold to maintain our operating funds. I expect that this > > > > will > > > > > be an important topic of discussion this coming meeting, fleshing out a > > > clear and precise donation/scrapping procedure (I hate the word policy). > > > > I > > > > > was a manager for a thrift store for a time so I'll see about drafting a > > > generic procedure for the membership to modify as we choose. > > > > > > The basic foundation of all donations to Synhak is that it belongs to > > > Synhak until we (by we, I mean any member, it doesn't have to be me, > > > > I.E. A > > > > No. No, no, no, no. Please see above. The stuff in the junk pile is *not* > > automatically SYNHAK's property! Just because it shows up doesn't mean it > > is > > instantly part of our infrastructure. This is a very dangerous idea, as it > > restricts access to our resources to only people who pay their dues and > > have > > jumped through the hoops to become a full member. Again, infrastructure > > provider. Not members-only workshop. > > > > > member appropriated something from the recent donations for his own > > > > project > > > > > before I got a chance to look at it and therefore it is not included in > > > > my > > > > > recent report) can determine their future purpose, we are not a > > > recycling > > > facility for e-waste, but will work with members, the community, and > > > > local > > > > > recycling centers to ensure all donations get maximum use/reuse. The > > > general public may then use recent donations during our open hours once > > > > our > > > > > members have had enough time to figure out what these donations can be > > > > used > > > > > for, ALL of the equipment seen at synhak, computers, monitors, mixers, > > > soldering tools, welders, saws, power tools, projector, etc. were > > > donated > > > and then repaired/refurbished and then set up for public use. I promise > > > that everyone will get a chance to use donations including the general > > > public but we have to think about our members and our operating costs > > > > first. > > > > That is not the protocol. If it is, please correct me so it can get > > changed > > through the proper channel of a proposal. > > > > > I sincerely apologize for the confusion this has caused and I feel > > > > horrible > > > > > for the disappointment. I am working as quickly as I can to sort the > > > equipment so they can be put to good use. > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Philip P. Patnode <[email protected] > > > > > >wrote: > > > > *Suggestions for consideration by SYNHAK members -* > > > > > > > > *To avoid confusion, disappointment, and wasting time on projects that > > > > will never happen, I suggest that the JUNK PILE (clearly marked with a > > > > sign, usage policy established) be separated from the RECENT DONATIONS > > > > PILE > > > > (not marked, no policy) and I suggest **a formal SH policy be > > > > established > > > > > > for donations.* > > > > > > > > *In my opinion, two things need to happen at SYNHAK regarding future > > > > donations.* > > > > > > > > *One*, *the SH policy* on all donations - from any source, of any kind > > > > - > > > > > > needs to be clearly stated and communicated to all members and > > > > non-members, > > > > in print or by email or as added text on the SH webpage or all three. > > > > > > > > *Two*,* the physical location* at SH for recent hardware donations > > > > needs > > > > > > to be clearly marked with a sign/appropriate comments. For example, > > > > "Don't > > > > Take" or "Not Available" or "Death by Laser" or "To Be Evaluated" > > > > might be > > > > > > used to convey the message. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > > > Here is the back story behind the suggestions. My apologies for the > > > > length and details necessary to tell the story. > > > > > > > > At about 7.15pm last night, because of the delay over the turkey > > > > cooking > > > > > > experiment, I spent some time taking a casual look at the contents of > > > > the > > > > > > hardware junk pile near the entrance to the main room. Looked at and > > > > dug > > > > > > through lots of boxes and shelves full of stuff, all under a sign > > > > indicating that all of it was in the correct place - the Junk Pile. > > > > > > > > Much to my surprise, I found a HP g7 series laptop that was very > > > > similar > > > > > > to the HP g7-1019wm that I had brought with me to SH last night, in > > > > the > > > > hope of finding someone to help me diagnose/identify the problems and > > > > guide > > > > me through the repair process. The HP I brought is a personal laptop > > > > and > > > > > > not an item I plan to sell on eBay or Craigslist. It has a bad > > > > cooling > > > > fan > > > > (does not rotate - ever), a glitchy on/off switch, and two keys > > > > damaged - > > > > > > the K and the L, and maybe other problems. > > > > > > > > A long-time full member of SH (not to be named) stopped by to chat and > > > > discuss the situation with me. During the conversation, he made it > > > > very > > > > > > clear that I could "claim" the donated item I found in the junk pile > > > > and > > > > > > use parts from it to fix my laptop. He was aware that I am not a > > > > sponsored > > > > member of SH, only a recent interested person who likes the concept of > > > > SH > > > > > > and has made an effort to swim with the rolling tide. As the turkey > > > > frying > > > > situation was still developing out on the loading deck, I spent the > > > > next > > > > > > 45 > > > > minutes doing some online research about the specs for both HP laptops > > > > and > > > > > > going through the HP support forums to read the comments about similar > > > > problems. I was on page two of my notes when a dark cloud appeared on > > > > the > > > > > > horizon. > > > > > > > > My joy of finding a possible solution to my laptop problem turned to > > > > serious disappointment and frustration when another long-time full > > > > member > > > > > > of SH (again, not to be named) approached and summarily declared that > > > > the > > > > > > donated item was not available to me or anyone else, but would be > > > > retained > > > > > > by SH to be diagnosed and possibly repaired and used by SH or sold for > > > > cash. There was no room allowed for any further discussion about the > > > > donated laptop. Do'ocracy in action? > > > > > > > > As a non-member, with no power, no influence, no ace-in-the-hole, and > > > > definitely no say about anything regarding anything at SH, I tried to > > > > minimize my comments and watched as the member picked up the laptop > > > > off > > > > the > > > > work area where I had it and proceeded to disassemble it on another > > > > bench, > > > > > > check out a few items, and put it back together again. He then moved > > > > to a > > > > > > back room, out of sight and out of reach, as if he was concerned that > > > > it > > > > > > would find a way back to the junk pile, or worse, out to someone's car > > > > and > > > > > > disappear forever. The series of actions by the member almost > > > > appeared > > > > > > as > > > > if he was worried I would run off with the donated HP moment he turned > > > > his > > > > > > back on it, although I might be entirely in error about his thoughts > > > > on > > > > the > > > > matter. > > > > > > > > The names of the SH members who were involved are not essential to the > > > > issue and are not the basis for the suggestions. Personalities play > > > > no > > > > > > part in my suggestion to take action on the matter of donations to SH. > > > > > > > > Only turkey feathers should be ruffled, as I am not making this an > > > > issue > > > > > > about any particular member. > > > > > > > > On a final note, I would consider buying the donated HP g7 series > > > > laptop > > > > > > from SH at a reasonable price to use for parts or repair, if it is > > > > available now or becomes available in the near future. > > > > > > > > In the meantime, I will avoid even looking at anything within 10ft of > > > > the > > > > > > combo donations/junk pile. I don't want to get my hope up and then > > > > have > > > > > > it > > > > dashed again. > > > > > > > > Philip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Discuss mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
