I don't really need the tax deduction but rather prefer to see the space grow. I happen to have the raw material but not the time to deal with it. The way I see it is... I donate gear. Someone sorts & fixes. The Space uses it. OR Someone Sells it. SynHak grows.
Only after it serves no use to the space as a whole should it be given the label as junk and then it is free game! As a member in good standing I have to agree with Omar's interpretation of the donation path AND fully support a written and organised plan as Phillip suggested. On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> wrote: > I'll get some blank donation receipts drawn up so you can start to take > advantage of your donations on your taxes. > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected]> wrote: > >> In the future any donations I make are to assimilated by the volunteer >> maintainer of the domain of that item. The items I bring in are not JUNK >> but rather raw materials to be used and/or blown up. >> >> https://synhak.org/wiki/Maintainers >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Torrie Fischer >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> On Friday, December 06, 2013 20:33:52 Justin Herman wrote: >>> > First want to say that everyone I have ever met at synhak is cool. >>> > >>> > This is my POV so please take the little it is worth. >>> > >>> > >>> > I would like to make it clear that I never intended to cause someone >>> to be >>> > upset by donating equipment. BUT I did donate it to SynHak not an >>> > individual. I hope that everyone can understand the difference. >>> >>> You did. It went into SYNHAK's pile of hackable equipment. In the future, >>> please let discuss@ know in advance and put some other sign on them if >>> you >>> don't want donations to be hacked, but have a specific purpose in mind. >>> If no >>> specific purpose is in mind, please ask discuss@ to see what people >>> would want >>> to do with them. Otherwise, that entire junk pile is fair game to all >>> members >>> of the hacker community, excluding those who have been banned from >>> participating. >>> >>> > >>> > If the items were deemed limbo property when given, they are NOT a >>> > charitable gift. I do feel that synhak should help others with >>> equipment >>> > either by releasing it to individuals (selling and/or giving), Loaning >>> > (under the membership loan a tool plan), or retaining it for a fixed >>> > community resource (like the welder or lathe or 3d Printer) >>> >>> While the junk pile /is/ free for anyone to take things from, they >>> should only >>> be taken out of the junk pile for the purpose of making. If someone >>> takes it >>> and uses it wholesale for their personal gain, thats not excellent. If >>> someone >>> wants to make or learn with what they see, they should be free to do so. >>> That >>> is SYNHAK's purpose. I'd consider that a charitable gift since it >>> furthers >>> SYNHAK's mission of providing to the general public and environment to >>> "provide an environment for people to educate, create, and share amongst >>> themselves and others within the domains of technology, art and science." >>> >>> > >>> > When I donate items to synhak I donate them to strengthen the >>> hackerspace >>> > community. I know that others (like Omar and others) will take the >>> precious >>> > time to sift through it and determine a good communal use. This >>> communal >>> > use may support others to come to the space work on projects and >>> provide >>> > their support. Together we all support each other. >>> >>> Just so its clear, the hackerspace community is a lot more than the 16 >>> members >>> who pay dues. The discuss list has over 100 subscribers, and our meetings >>> regularly get 25+ people showing up. >>> >>> > >>> > I see no reason that if a certain widget/part/item would help you in a >>> > personal project why synhak (as a voting membership) would not grant >>> that >>> > property to be yours forever. BUT I don't assume anything (except >>> > consumables and items deemed JUNK) as to mine when I visit the space. I >>> > have access to them, can use them (if trained) but I don't own them. >>> >>> There is a difference between property being dropped off in the junk >>> pile and >>> being directly integrated into the infrastructure of the hackerspace. >>> >>> > >>> > When I loan items to synhak (large fans and future items) I entrust the >>> > community to be excellent and treat them like they would other more >>> > expensive items (powertools, 3d printer, lathe) >>> > >>> > I hope everyone understands the place I am coming from even if you >>> don't >>> > see it the same way. >>> >>> I'm not sure you and I share the same definitions, so please tell me if >>> I'm >>> misunderstanding: >>> >>> "Hackerspace community", n - The people who use SYNHAK to be creative, >>> whether >>> it is through mailing list discussions, IRC conversations, experimenting >>> with >>> homebrewing, attending a class, or sharing ideas at a meeting. Able to >>> exercise do-ocracy within the bounds of "Be Excellent to Each Other". >>> Don't >>> even need to be citizens of Earth, or biological constructs. >>> >>> "SYNHAK member", n - A subset of the above that has gone through the >>> membership process. Doesn't get any special rights beyond being >>> permitted to >>> participate in our governance process through consensus, acceptance of >>> new >>> members to the governance process, holding office, key access, and >>> minimal >>> storage. >>> >>> "Donating to SYNHAK", v - Giving property to SYNHAK that further enables >>> the >>> organization's mission to provide an environment for people to educate, >>> create, and share amongst themselves and others within the domains of >>> technology, art, and science. >>> >>> "Tax deductable donation", n - A donation to SYNHAK that gets a reciept >>> in >>> return, and should be handled through the Treasurer. >>> >>> > >>> > /end rant >>> > >>> > Much Love >>> > >>> > Justin >>> > >>> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Torrie Fischer >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> > > On Friday, December 06, 2013 15:43:22 Omar Rassi wrote: >>> > > > Philip, >>> > > > >>> > > > First, you are right about the confusion about the junk pile and >>> > > >>> > > donations >>> > > >>> > > > pile. I discussed this with a Champion and we are clarifying this >>> VERY >>> > > >>> > > soon >>> > > >>> > > > because it is very important to avoid this kind of confusion. >>> Second, to >>> > > > dispel any feeling that anyone was worried about you, that is >>> false, I >>> > > >>> > > put >>> > > >>> > > > it back in the storage room because that is our storage room for >>> member >>> > > > projects and synhak property. The recent donations had not gone >>> their >>> > > > because they had not been sorted yet. >>> > > >>> > > Except it isn't SYNHAK property. It is stuff that *nobody* wants to >>> do >>> > > anything with. If someone claims something from the donation pile, >>> then >>> > > they >>> > > are free to do whatever they want with it, but it needs to leave that >>> > > area. If >>> > > their next step is to fit it into SYNHAK's infrastructure, then it >>> remains >>> > > SYNHAK's. >>> > > >>> > > If their next step is to make something, then I feel that they're >>> free to >>> > > claim it as their own, *regardless of membership status*. Seriously, >>> you >>> > > don't >>> > > need to be a member to stop in one day of the year and happen to see >>> the >>> > > exact >>> > > hardware that you need to finish your project. >>> > > >>> > > We are an infrastructure provider for creative people. Part of that >>> > > infrastructure is having a physical location for people to drop off >>> unused >>> > > equipment and others to use it to continue to create. >>> > > >>> > > We are not an infrastructure provider for members of SYNHAK. Members >>> of >>> > > SYNHAK >>> > > support the hackerspace. They are not the hackerspace. They provide >>> the >>> > > funds >>> > > to keep the lights on and have the right to shape the space through >>> direct >>> > > involvement, as opposed to trying to convince someone who can to do >>> it for >>> > > them. >>> > > >>> > > > I was not able to get to the rest of the computing equipment until >>> the >>> > > > festivities were over and I have done so, though the desktops have >>> not >>> > > >>> > > yet >>> > > >>> > > > been looked at. I have no issues with helping anyone with their >>> computer >>> > > > equipment and answering questions and I am more than happy to help >>> you >>> > > >>> > > with >>> > > >>> > > > your HP as I'm an experience repair technician however, that >>> particular >>> > > >>> > > HP >>> > > >>> > > > that was in the donation pile is of great use to synhak and should >>> not >>> > > >>> > > have >>> > > >>> > > > been left at the junk pile (the differentiation between junk and >>> > > >>> > > donations >>> > > >>> > > > will be rectified). >>> > > > >>> > > > Of the donation of those computer equipment, I have already >>> identified >>> > > >>> > > some >>> > > >>> > > > things that going right back to the junk pile as it is just too >>> old to >>> > > > be >>> > > > of use to synhak, newer equipment may be put to use as a computer, >>> for a >>> > > > project or resold to maintain our operating funds. I expect that >>> this >>> > > >>> > > will >>> > > >>> > > > be an important topic of discussion this coming meeting, fleshing >>> out a >>> > > > clear and precise donation/scrapping procedure (I hate the word >>> policy). >>> > > >>> > > I >>> > > >>> > > > was a manager for a thrift store for a time so I'll see about >>> drafting a >>> > > > generic procedure for the membership to modify as we choose. >>> > > > >>> > > > The basic foundation of all donations to Synhak is that it belongs >>> to >>> > > > Synhak until we (by we, I mean any member, it doesn't have to be >>> me, >>> > > >>> > > I.E. A >>> > > >>> > > No. No, no, no, no. Please see above. The stuff in the junk pile is >>> *not* >>> > > automatically SYNHAK's property! Just because it shows up doesn't >>> mean it >>> > > is >>> > > instantly part of our infrastructure. This is a very dangerous idea, >>> as it >>> > > restricts access to our resources to only people who pay their dues >>> and >>> > > have >>> > > jumped through the hoops to become a full member. Again, >>> infrastructure >>> > > provider. Not members-only workshop. >>> > > >>> > > > member appropriated something from the recent donations for his own >>> > > >>> > > project >>> > > >>> > > > before I got a chance to look at it and therefore it is not >>> included in >>> > > >>> > > my >>> > > >>> > > > recent report) can determine their future purpose, we are not a >>> > > > recycling >>> > > > facility for e-waste, but will work with members, the community, >>> and >>> > > >>> > > local >>> > > >>> > > > recycling centers to ensure all donations get maximum use/reuse. >>> The >>> > > > general public may then use recent donations during our open hours >>> once >>> > > >>> > > our >>> > > >>> > > > members have had enough time to figure out what these donations >>> can be >>> > > >>> > > used >>> > > >>> > > > for, ALL of the equipment seen at synhak, computers, monitors, >>> mixers, >>> > > > soldering tools, welders, saws, power tools, projector, etc. were >>> > > > donated >>> > > > and then repaired/refurbished and then set up for public use. I >>> promise >>> > > > that everyone will get a chance to use donations including the >>> general >>> > > > public but we have to think about our members and our operating >>> costs >>> > > >>> > > first. >>> > > >>> > > That is not the protocol. If it is, please correct me so it can get >>> > > changed >>> > > through the proper channel of a proposal. >>> > > >>> > > > I sincerely apologize for the confusion this has caused and I feel >>> > > >>> > > horrible >>> > > >>> > > > for the disappointment. I am working as quickly as I can to sort >>> the >>> > > > equipment so they can be put to good use. >>> > > > >>> > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Philip P. Patnode < >>> [email protected] >>> > > > >>> > > >wrote: >>> > > > > *Suggestions for consideration by SYNHAK members -* >>> > > > > >>> > > > > *To avoid confusion, disappointment, and wasting time on >>> projects that >>> > > > > will never happen, I suggest that the JUNK PILE (clearly marked >>> with a >>> > > > > sign, usage policy established) be separated from the RECENT >>> DONATIONS >>> > > > > PILE >>> > > > > (not marked, no policy) and I suggest **a formal SH policy be >>> > > >>> > > established >>> > > >>> > > > > for donations.* >>> > > > > >>> > > > > *In my opinion, two things need to happen at SYNHAK regarding >>> future >>> > > > > donations.* >>> > > > > >>> > > > > *One*, *the SH policy* on all donations - from any source, of >>> any kind >>> > > >>> > > - >>> > > >>> > > > > needs to be clearly stated and communicated to all members and >>> > > > > non-members, >>> > > > > in print or by email or as added text on the SH webpage or all >>> three. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > *Two*,* the physical location* at SH for recent hardware >>> donations >>> > > >>> > > needs >>> > > >>> > > > > to be clearly marked with a sign/appropriate comments. For >>> example, >>> > > > > "Don't >>> > > > > Take" or "Not Available" or "Death by Laser" or "To Be Evaluated" >>> > > >>> > > might be >>> > > >>> > > > > used to convey the message. >>> > > >>> > > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > >>> > > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > > >>> > > > > ------------------ >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Here is the back story behind the suggestions. My apologies for >>> the >>> > > > > length and details necessary to tell the story. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > At about 7.15pm last night, because of the delay over the turkey >>> > > >>> > > cooking >>> > > >>> > > > > experiment, I spent some time taking a casual look at the >>> contents of >>> > > >>> > > the >>> > > >>> > > > > hardware junk pile near the entrance to the main room. Looked >>> at and >>> > > >>> > > dug >>> > > >>> > > > > through lots of boxes and shelves full of stuff, all under a sign >>> > > > > indicating that all of it was in the correct place - the Junk >>> Pile. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Much to my surprise, I found a HP g7 series laptop that was very >>> > > >>> > > similar >>> > > >>> > > > > to the HP g7-1019wm that I had brought with me to SH last night, >>> in >>> > > > > the >>> > > > > hope of finding someone to help me diagnose/identify the >>> problems and >>> > > > > guide >>> > > > > me through the repair process. The HP I brought is a personal >>> laptop >>> > > >>> > > and >>> > > >>> > > > > not an item I plan to sell on eBay or Craigslist. It has a bad >>> > > > > cooling >>> > > > > fan >>> > > > > (does not rotate - ever), a glitchy on/off switch, and two keys >>> > > >>> > > damaged - >>> > > >>> > > > > the K and the L, and maybe other problems. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > A long-time full member of SH (not to be named) stopped by to >>> chat and >>> > > > > discuss the situation with me. During the conversation, he made >>> it >>> > > >>> > > very >>> > > >>> > > > > clear that I could "claim" the donated item I found in the junk >>> pile >>> > > >>> > > and >>> > > >>> > > > > use parts from it to fix my laptop. He was aware that I am not a >>> > > > > sponsored >>> > > > > member of SH, only a recent interested person who likes the >>> concept of >>> > > >>> > > SH >>> > > >>> > > > > and has made an effort to swim with the rolling tide. As the >>> turkey >>> > > > > frying >>> > > > > situation was still developing out on the loading deck, I spent >>> the >>> > > >>> > > next >>> > > >>> > > > > 45 >>> > > > > minutes doing some online research about the specs for both HP >>> laptops >>> > > >>> > > and >>> > > >>> > > > > going through the HP support forums to read the comments about >>> similar >>> > > > > problems. I was on page two of my notes when a dark cloud >>> appeared on >>> > > >>> > > the >>> > > >>> > > > > horizon. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > My joy of finding a possible solution to my laptop problem >>> turned to >>> > > > > serious disappointment and frustration when another long-time >>> full >>> > > >>> > > member >>> > > >>> > > > > of SH (again, not to be named) approached and summarily declared >>> that >>> > > >>> > > the >>> > > >>> > > > > donated item was not available to me or anyone else, but would be >>> > > >>> > > retained >>> > > >>> > > > > by SH to be diagnosed and possibly repaired and used by SH or >>> sold for >>> > > > > cash. There was no room allowed for any further discussion >>> about the >>> > > > > donated laptop. Do'ocracy in action? >>> > > > > >>> > > > > As a non-member, with no power, no influence, no >>> ace-in-the-hole, and >>> > > > > definitely no say about anything regarding anything at SH, I >>> tried to >>> > > > > minimize my comments and watched as the member picked up the >>> laptop >>> > > > > off >>> > > > > the >>> > > > > work area where I had it and proceeded to disassemble it on >>> another >>> > > >>> > > bench, >>> > > >>> > > > > check out a few items, and put it back together again. He then >>> moved >>> > > >>> > > to a >>> > > >>> > > > > back room, out of sight and out of reach, as if he was concerned >>> that >>> > > >>> > > it >>> > > >>> > > > > would find a way back to the junk pile, or worse, out to >>> someone's car >>> > > >>> > > and >>> > > >>> > > > > disappear forever. The series of actions by the member almost >>> > > >>> > > appeared >>> > > >>> > > > > as >>> > > > > if he was worried I would run off with the donated HP moment he >>> turned >>> > > >>> > > his >>> > > >>> > > > > back on it, although I might be entirely in error about his >>> thoughts >>> > > > > on >>> > > > > the >>> > > > > matter. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > The names of the SH members who were involved are not essential >>> to the >>> > > > > issue and are not the basis for the suggestions. Personalities >>> play >>> > > >>> > > no >>> > > >>> > > > > part in my suggestion to take action on the matter of donations >>> to SH. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Only turkey feathers should be ruffled, as I am not making this >>> an >>> > > >>> > > issue >>> > > >>> > > > > about any particular member. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > On a final note, I would consider buying the donated HP g7 series >>> > > >>> > > laptop >>> > > >>> > > > > from SH at a reasonable price to use for parts or repair, if it >>> is >>> > > > > available now or becomes available in the near future. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > In the meantime, I will avoid even looking at anything within >>> 10ft of >>> > > >>> > > the >>> > > >>> > > > > combo donations/junk pile. I don't want to get my hope up and >>> then >>> > > >>> > > have >>> > > >>> > > > > it >>> > > > > dashed again. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Philip >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > > > Discuss mailing list >>> > > > > [email protected] >>> > > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > Discuss mailing list >>> > > [email protected] >>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
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