On Saturday, December 07, 2013 22:48:19 Philip P. Patnode wrote: > Omar, > > Thanks for the directive to "just take it" and move on with my project. > > Unfortunately, that is not possible for me to do at this time. > > It is obvious from the contributors to this thread that there are different > points of view and positions on the issue of this specific HP laptop and > about other high value donated items in general. > > Before I would agree to accept the donated laptop, I would insist on a > consensus of opinion by a majority of SH members.
This is the best course of action. Its obviously not something that we can just forget about without coming to a solid conclusion we're all happy with. > > Perhaps the situation can be resolved in my favor at the next SH meeting on > Tuesday evening. > > If the laptop does wind up in my possession, I definitely will seek out > your guidance and opinion as I proceed with my project. > Your knowledge and experience in computer repair and maintenance was > previously highlighted by several SH members, all of whom recommended that > I ask for your help in dealing with my non-functioning machine as a project. > > Until another day, > > Philip > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> wrote: > > Regarding the particular notebook in question: > > > > Philip, just take it. This drama is just too much for me, I see an > > opportunity for synhak to be able to shorten a funding gap with the recent > > massive donation of high value computers and instead I get a rain of guilt > > and have to justify trying to prioritize the needs of the community as a > > whole. Philip, I am still willing to help you with your personal HP laptop > > in the troubleshooting process, I'm just tired of this thread. I'm not > > going through all that equipment anymore, hack away! > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Philip P. Patnode <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Justin, > >> > >> No need to identify the first SH member who first assured me that I could > >> claim and make use of the HP laptop since it was in the clearly marked > >> Junk > >> Pile. > >> > >> No need to identify the second SH member who suddenly took possession of > >> the laptop from me in the name of SYNHAK, since it will not serve a > >> useful > >> purpose. > >> > >> The issue is about procedures or policies at SH, not individuals. > >> > >> The whole process of donations and the junk pile should be discussed by > >> the SH membership. Solutions to the obvious problems are needed. > >> > >> Just to be clear about my intentions, the damaged/broken/messed > >> up/non-working laptop I own was intended to be my first project at SH. > >> It > >> was to be the source for a learning experience for me about laptop > >> diagnostics, disassembly, repair or replacement of internal parts, > >> reassembly, configuration and settings, directed online research for > >> techniques and parts, plus full documentation of the project with video > >> or > >> still images and/or written notes. I claimed the HP laptop from the Junk > >> Pile as a source for much needed spare parts. > >> > >> The finished project would have been a working laptop that was built at > >> SH using parts from both HP g7 series machines, with a little help from > >> some of the knowledgeable and experienced people who congregate at SH. > >> For > >> those who may wonder about the end result, the finished project would > >> have > >> been a working laptop for my personal use, not an item I would sell > >> online. > >> > >> If anyone has questions or comments or suggestions about this issue of > >> donated hardware, I suggest they bring up their concerns at the next SH > >> meeting. > >> > >> Philip > >> > >> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Justin Herman <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> What person in question? > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Torrie Fischer <[email protected] > >>> > >>> > wrote: > >>>> On Friday, December 06, 2013 14:54:16 Philip P. Patnode wrote: > >>>> > *Suggestions for consideration by SYNHAK members -* > >>>> > > >>>> > *To avoid confusion, disappointment, and wasting time on projects > >>>> > >>>> that will > >>>> > >>>> > never happen, I suggest that the JUNK PILE (clearly marked with a > >>>> > >>>> sign, > >>>> > >>>> > usage policy established) be separated from the RECENT DONATIONS PILE > >>>> > >>>> (not > >>>> > >>>> > marked, no policy) and I suggest **a formal SH policy be established > >>>> > >>>> for > >>>> > >>>> > donations.* > >>>> > > >>>> > *In my opinion, two things need to happen at SYNHAK regarding future > >>>> > donations.* > >>>> > > >>>> > *One*, *the SH policy* on all donations - from any source, of any > >>>> > >>>> kind - > >>>> > >>>> > needs to be clearly stated and communicated to all members and > >>>> > >>>> non-members, > >>>> > >>>> > in print or by email or as added text on the SH webpage or all three. > >>>> > >>>> Yeah, totes. We need to figure out something we can all agree on as a > >>>> protocol > >>>> for receiving donations at the space. > >>>> > >>>> > *Two*,* the physical location* at SH for recent hardware donations > >>>> > >>>> needs to > >>>> > >>>> > be clearly marked with a sign/appropriate comments. For example, > >>>> > >>>> "Don't > >>>> > >>>> > Take" or "Not Available" or "Death by Laser" or "To Be Evaluated" > >>>> > >>>> might be > >>>> > >>>> > used to convey the message. > >>>> > >>>> Huh? Thats a bit restricting. Given time, I think the recent donations > >>>> pile > >>>> would quickly become a second junk pile, but with people staying away > >>>> from it > >>>> because hacking is not allowed. I know that I don't usually sort > >>>> through new > >>>> donations that show up because I'm not really sure where things would > >>>> fit in > >>>> the space. > >>>> > >>>> See also: my mail earlier this week to encourage more funds for a > >>>> bigger space > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> ----- > >>>> > >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> ----->>>> > >>>> > -------------- > >>>> > > >>>> > Here is the back story behind the suggestions. My apologies for the > >>>> > >>>> length > >>>> > >>>> > and details necessary to tell the story. > >>>> > > >>>> > At about 7.15pm last night, because of the delay over the turkey > >>>> > >>>> cooking > >>>> > >>>> > experiment, I spent some time taking a casual look at the contents of > >>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>> > hardware junk pile near the entrance to the main room. Looked at and > >>>> > >>>> dug > >>>> > >>>> > through lots of boxes and shelves full of stuff, all under a sign > >>>> > indicating that all of it was in the correct place - the Junk Pile. > >>>> > > >>>> > Much to my surprise, I found a HP g7 series laptop that was very > >>>> > >>>> similar to > >>>> > >>>> > the HP g7-1019wm that I had brought with me to SH last night, in the > >>>> > >>>> hope > >>>> > >>>> > of finding someone to help me diagnose/identify the problems and > >>>> > >>>> guide me > >>>> > >>>> > through the repair process. The HP I brought is a personal laptop > >>>> > >>>> and not > >>>> > >>>> > an item I plan to sell on eBay or Craigslist. It has a bad cooling > >>>> > >>>> fan > >>>> > >>>> > (does not rotate - ever), a glitchy on/off switch, and two keys > >>>> > >>>> damaged - > >>>> > >>>> > the K and the L, and maybe other problems. > >>>> > > >>>> > A long-time full member of SH (not to be named) stopped by to chat > >>>> > and > >>>> > discuss the situation with me. During the conversation, he made it > >>>> > >>>> very > >>>> > >>>> > clear that I could "claim" the donated item I found in the junk pile > >>>> > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>> > use parts from it to fix my laptop. He was aware that I am not a > >>>> > >>>> sponsored > >>>> > >>>> > member of SH, only a recent interested person who likes the concept > >>>> > >>>> of SH > >>>> > >>>> > and has made an effort to swim with the rolling tide. As the turkey > >>>> > >>>> frying > >>>> > >>>> > situation was still developing out on the loading deck, I spent the > >>>> > >>>> next 45 > >>>> > >>>> > minutes doing some online research about the specs for both HP > >>>> > >>>> laptops and > >>>> > >>>> > going through the HP support forums to read the comments about > >>>> > similar > >>>> > problems. I was on page two of my notes when a dark cloud appeared on > >>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>> > horizon. > >>>> > > >>>> > My joy of finding a possible solution to my laptop problem turned to > >>>> > serious disappointment and frustration when another long-time full > >>>> > >>>> member > >>>> > >>>> > of SH (again, not to be named) approached and summarily declared that > >>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>> > donated item was not available to me or anyone else, but would be > >>>> > >>>> retained > >>>> > >>>> > by SH to be diagnosed and possibly repaired and used by SH or sold > >>>> > for > >>>> > cash. There was no room allowed for any further discussion about the > >>>> > donated laptop. Do'ocracy in action? > >>>> > >>>> Wowzers. That is highly unexcellent. Whoever did that should've heard > >>>> your > >>>> claim to it and understood that they can't just take things from > >>>> others. The > >>>> junk pile isn't the exclusive property of SYNHAK members. It never has > >>>> been. > >>>> > >>>> > As a non-member, with no power, no influence, no ace-in-the-hole, and > >>>> > definitely no say about anything regarding anything at SH, I tried to > >>>> > minimize my comments and watched as the member picked up the laptop > >>>> > >>>> off the > >>>> > >>>> > work area where I had it and proceeded to disassemble it on another > >>>> > >>>> bench, > >>>> > >>>> > check out a few items, and put it back together again. He then moved > >>>> > >>>> to a > >>>> > >>>> > back room, out of sight and out of reach, as if he was concerned that > >>>> > >>>> it > >>>> > >>>> > would find a way back to the junk pile, or worse, out to someone's > >>>> > >>>> car and > >>>> > >>>> > disappear forever. The series of actions by the member almost > >>>> > >>>> appeared as > >>>> > >>>> > if he was worried I would run off with the donated HP moment he > >>>> > >>>> turned his > >>>> > >>>> > back on it, although I might be entirely in error about his thoughts > >>>> > >>>> on the > >>>> > >>>> > matter. > >>>> > >>>> Nah, the back room is our member storage closet. If someone finds a > >>>> donation > >>>> to be useful, they'll pick it up and start hacking on it. If they've > >>>> got plans > >>>> for it, it goes into the storage room or gets a Do Not Hack sticker. > >>>> Still > >>>> though, they have no right to take it away from someone who has laid > >>>> claim to > >>>> it, regardless of membership status. > >>>> > >>>> There are only four benefits to SYNHAK membership: > >>>> > >>>> 1. You can participate in our self governance > >>>> 2. You get to use the member storage room > >>>> 3. An option to have a lock on a member bin in the storage room > >>>> 4. Apply for a key > >>>> > >>>> I'm still a bit shocked that the laptop was just taken without any > >>>> discussion, > >>>> *especially* for an impromptu donation that nobody else knew about > >>>> unless they > >>>> happened to be in the space in the last two days or were particularly > >>>> observant. I would appreciate it if the person in question contacted > >>>> Philip > >>>> and discussed a solution. > >>>> > >>>> > The names of the SH members who were involved are not essential to > >>>> > the > >>>> > issue and are not the basis for the suggestions. Personalities play > >>>> > >>>> no > >>>> > >>>> > part in my suggestion to take action on the matter of donations to > >>>> > SH. > >>>> > > >>>> > Only turkey feathers should be ruffled, as I am not making this an > >>>> > >>>> issue > >>>> > >>>> > about any particular member. > >>>> > > >>>> > On a final note, I would consider buying the donated HP g7 series > >>>> > >>>> laptop > >>>> > >>>> > from SH at a reasonable price to use for parts or repair, if it is > >>>> > available now or becomes available in the near future. > >>>> > > >>>> > In the meantime, I will avoid even looking at anything within 10ft of > >>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>> > combo donations/junk pile. I don't want to get my hope up and then > >>>> > >>>> have it > >>>> > >>>> > dashed again. > >>>> > > >>>> > Philip > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Discuss mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Discuss mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
