On Saturday, December 07, 2013 22:48:19 Philip P. Patnode wrote:
> Omar,
> 
> Thanks for the directive to "just take it" and move on with my project.
> 
> Unfortunately, that is not possible for me to do at this time.
> 
> It is obvious from the contributors to this thread that there are different
> points of view and positions on the issue of this specific HP laptop and
> about other high value donated items in general.
> 
> Before I would agree to accept the donated laptop, I would insist on a
> consensus of opinion by a majority of SH members.

This is the best course of action. Its obviously not something that we can 
just forget about without coming to a solid conclusion we're all happy with.

> 
> Perhaps the situation can be resolved in my favor at the next SH meeting on
> Tuesday evening.
> 
> If the laptop does wind up in my possession, I definitely will seek out
> your guidance and opinion as I proceed with my project.
> Your knowledge and experience in computer repair and maintenance was
> previously highlighted by several SH members, all of whom recommended that
> I ask for your help in dealing with my non-functioning machine as a project.
> 
> Until another day,
> 
> Philip
> 
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Regarding the particular notebook in question:
> > 
> > Philip, just take it. This drama is just too much for me, I see an
> > opportunity for synhak to be able to shorten a funding gap with the recent
> > massive donation of high value computers and instead I get a rain of guilt
> > and have to justify trying to prioritize the needs of the community as a
> > whole. Philip, I am still willing to help you with your personal HP laptop
> > in the troubleshooting process, I'm just tired of this thread. I'm not
> > going through all that equipment anymore, hack away!
> > 
> > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Philip P. Patnode 
<[email protected]>wrote:
> >> Justin,
> >> 
> >> No need to identify the first SH member who first assured me that I could
> >> claim and make use of the HP laptop since it was in the clearly marked
> >> Junk
> >> Pile.
> >> 
> >> No need to identify the second SH member who suddenly took possession of
> >> the laptop from me in the name of SYNHAK, since it will not serve a
> >> useful
> >> purpose.
> >> 
> >> The issue is about procedures or policies at SH, not individuals.
> >> 
> >> The whole process of donations and the junk pile should be discussed by
> >> the SH membership.  Solutions to the obvious problems are needed.
> >> 
> >> Just to be clear about my intentions, the damaged/broken/messed
> >> up/non-working laptop I own was intended to be my first project at SH. 
> >> It
> >> was to be the source for a learning experience for me about laptop
> >> diagnostics, disassembly, repair or replacement of internal parts,
> >> reassembly, configuration and settings, directed online research for
> >> techniques and parts, plus full documentation of the project with video
> >> or
> >> still images and/or written notes.  I claimed the HP laptop from the Junk
> >> Pile as a source for much needed spare parts.
> >> 
> >> The finished project would have been a working laptop that was built at
> >> SH using parts from both HP g7 series machines, with a little help from
> >> some of the knowledgeable and experienced people who congregate at SH. 
> >> For
> >> those who may wonder about the end result, the finished project would
> >> have
> >> been a working laptop for my personal use, not an item I would sell
> >> online.
> >> 
> >> If anyone has questions or comments or suggestions about this issue of
> >> donated hardware, I suggest they bring up their concerns at the next SH
> >> meeting.
> >> 
> >> Philip
> >> 
> >> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Justin Herman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> What person in question?
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Torrie Fischer <[email protected]
> >>> 
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, December 06, 2013 14:54:16 Philip P. Patnode wrote:
> >>>> > *Suggestions for consideration by SYNHAK members -*
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > *To avoid confusion, disappointment, and wasting time on projects
> >>>> 
> >>>> that will
> >>>> 
> >>>> > never happen, I suggest that the JUNK PILE (clearly marked with a
> >>>> 
> >>>> sign,
> >>>> 
> >>>> > usage policy established) be separated from the RECENT DONATIONS PILE
> >>>> 
> >>>> (not
> >>>> 
> >>>> > marked, no policy) and I suggest **a formal SH policy be established
> >>>> 
> >>>> for
> >>>> 
> >>>> > donations.*
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > *In my opinion, two things need to happen at SYNHAK regarding future
> >>>> > donations.*
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > *One*, *the SH policy* on all donations - from any source, of any
> >>>> 
> >>>> kind -
> >>>> 
> >>>> > needs to be clearly stated and communicated to all members and
> >>>> 
> >>>> non-members,
> >>>> 
> >>>> > in print or by email or as added text on the SH webpage or all three.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Yeah, totes. We need to figure out something we can all agree on as a
> >>>> protocol
> >>>> for receiving donations at the space.
> >>>> 
> >>>> > *Two*,* the physical location* at SH for recent hardware donations
> >>>> 
> >>>> needs to
> >>>> 
> >>>> > be clearly marked with a sign/appropriate comments.  For example,
> >>>> 
> >>>> "Don't
> >>>> 
> >>>> > Take" or "Not Available" or "Death by Laser" or "To Be Evaluated"
> >>>> 
> >>>> might be
> >>>> 
> >>>> > used to convey the message.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Huh? Thats a bit restricting. Given time, I think the recent donations
> >>>> pile
> >>>> would quickly become a second junk pile, but with people staying away
> >>>> from it
> >>>> because hacking is not allowed. I know that I don't usually sort
> >>>> through new
> >>>> donations that show up because I'm not really sure where things would
> >>>> fit in
> >>>> the space.
> >>>> 
> >>>> See also: my mail earlier this week to encourage more funds for a
> >>>> bigger space
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> -----
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ----->>>> 
> >>>> > --------------
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > Here is the back story behind the suggestions.  My apologies for the
> >>>> 
> >>>> length
> >>>> 
> >>>> > and details necessary to tell the story.
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > At about 7.15pm last night, because of the delay over the turkey
> >>>> 
> >>>> cooking
> >>>> 
> >>>> > experiment, I spent some time taking a casual look at the contents of
> >>>> 
> >>>> the
> >>>> 
> >>>> > hardware junk pile near the entrance to the main room.  Looked at and
> >>>> 
> >>>> dug
> >>>> 
> >>>> > through lots of boxes and shelves full of stuff, all under a sign
> >>>> > indicating that all of it was in the correct place - the Junk Pile.
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > Much to my surprise, I found a HP g7 series laptop that was very
> >>>> 
> >>>> similar to
> >>>> 
> >>>> > the HP g7-1019wm that I had brought with me to SH last night, in the
> >>>> 
> >>>> hope
> >>>> 
> >>>> > of finding someone to help me diagnose/identify the problems and
> >>>> 
> >>>> guide me
> >>>> 
> >>>> > through the repair process.  The HP I brought is a personal laptop
> >>>> 
> >>>> and not
> >>>> 
> >>>> > an item I plan to sell on eBay or Craigslist.  It has a bad cooling
> >>>> 
> >>>> fan
> >>>> 
> >>>> > (does not rotate - ever), a glitchy on/off switch, and two keys
> >>>> 
> >>>> damaged -
> >>>> 
> >>>> > the K and the L, and maybe other problems.
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > A long-time full member of SH (not to be named) stopped by to chat
> >>>> > and
> >>>> > discuss the situation with me.  During the conversation, he made it
> >>>> 
> >>>> very
> >>>> 
> >>>> > clear that I could "claim" the donated item I found in the junk pile
> >>>> 
> >>>> and
> >>>> 
> >>>> > use parts from it to fix my laptop.  He was aware that I am not a
> >>>> 
> >>>> sponsored
> >>>> 
> >>>> > member of SH, only a recent interested person who likes the concept
> >>>> 
> >>>> of SH
> >>>> 
> >>>> > and has made an effort to swim with the rolling tide.  As the turkey
> >>>> 
> >>>> frying
> >>>> 
> >>>> > situation was still developing out on the loading deck, I spent the
> >>>> 
> >>>> next 45
> >>>> 
> >>>> > minutes doing some online research about the specs for both HP
> >>>> 
> >>>> laptops and
> >>>> 
> >>>> > going through the HP support forums to read the comments about
> >>>> > similar
> >>>> > problems. I was on page two of my notes when a dark cloud appeared on
> >>>> 
> >>>> the
> >>>> 
> >>>> > horizon.
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > My joy of finding a possible solution to my laptop problem turned to
> >>>> > serious disappointment and frustration when another long-time full
> >>>> 
> >>>> member
> >>>> 
> >>>> > of SH (again, not to be named) approached and summarily declared that
> >>>> 
> >>>> the
> >>>> 
> >>>> > donated item was not available to me or anyone else, but would be
> >>>> 
> >>>> retained
> >>>> 
> >>>> > by SH to be diagnosed and possibly repaired and used by SH or sold
> >>>> > for
> >>>> > cash.  There was no room allowed for any further discussion about the
> >>>> > donated laptop. Do'ocracy in action?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Wowzers. That is highly unexcellent. Whoever did that should've heard
> >>>> your
> >>>> claim to it and understood that they can't just take things from
> >>>> others. The
> >>>> junk pile isn't the exclusive property of SYNHAK members. It never has
> >>>> been.
> >>>> 
> >>>> > As a non-member, with no power, no influence, no ace-in-the-hole, and
> >>>> > definitely no say about anything regarding anything at SH, I tried to
> >>>> > minimize my comments and watched as the member picked up the laptop
> >>>> 
> >>>> off the
> >>>> 
> >>>> > work area where I had it and proceeded to disassemble it on another
> >>>> 
> >>>> bench,
> >>>> 
> >>>> > check out a few items, and put it back together again.  He then moved
> >>>> 
> >>>> to a
> >>>> 
> >>>> > back room, out of sight and out of reach, as if he was concerned that
> >>>> 
> >>>> it
> >>>> 
> >>>> > would find a way back to the junk pile, or worse, out to someone's
> >>>> 
> >>>> car and
> >>>> 
> >>>> > disappear forever.   The series of actions by the member almost
> >>>> 
> >>>> appeared as
> >>>> 
> >>>> > if he was worried I would run off with the donated HP moment he
> >>>> 
> >>>> turned his
> >>>> 
> >>>> > back on it, although I might be entirely in error about his thoughts
> >>>> 
> >>>> on the
> >>>> 
> >>>> > matter.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Nah, the back room is our member storage closet. If someone finds a
> >>>> donation
> >>>> to be useful, they'll pick it up and start hacking on it. If they've
> >>>> got plans
> >>>> for it, it goes into the storage room or gets a Do Not Hack sticker.
> >>>> Still
> >>>> though, they have no right to take it away from someone who has laid
> >>>> claim to
> >>>> it, regardless of membership status.
> >>>> 
> >>>> There are only four benefits to SYNHAK membership:
> >>>> 
> >>>> 1. You can participate in our self governance
> >>>> 2. You get to use the member storage room
> >>>> 3. An option to have a lock on a member bin in the storage room
> >>>> 4. Apply for a key
> >>>> 
> >>>> I'm still a bit shocked that the laptop was just taken without any
> >>>> discussion,
> >>>> *especially* for an impromptu donation that nobody else knew about
> >>>> unless they
> >>>> happened to be in the space in the last two days or were particularly
> >>>> observant. I would appreciate it if the person in question contacted
> >>>> Philip
> >>>> and discussed a solution.
> >>>> 
> >>>> > The names of the SH members who were involved are not essential to
> >>>> > the
> >>>> > issue and are not the basis for the suggestions.   Personalities play
> >>>> 
> >>>> no
> >>>> 
> >>>> > part in my suggestion to take action on the matter of donations to
> >>>> > SH.
> >>>> > 
> >>>> >  Only turkey feathers should be ruffled, as I am not making this an
> >>>> 
> >>>> issue
> >>>> 
> >>>> > about any particular member.
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > On a final note, I would consider buying the donated HP g7 series
> >>>> 
> >>>> laptop
> >>>> 
> >>>> > from SH at a reasonable price to use for parts or repair, if it is
> >>>> > available now or becomes available in the near future.
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > In the meantime, I will avoid even looking at anything within 10ft of
> >>>> 
> >>>> the
> >>>> 
> >>>> > combo donations/junk pile.  I don't want to get my hope up and then
> >>>> 
> >>>> have it
> >>>> 
> >>>> > dashed again.
> >>>> > 
> >>>> > Philip
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>> [email protected]
> >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>> 
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> >> 
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> > 
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