Additionally, I'll even pay the taxes out of pocket as a donation to Synhak if necessary.
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> wrote: > >I think down the road Syn/Hak shouldn't be by any means a place of paid > storage. It is hacker space. This wasn't the original intent on the deal. I > think letting his lease complete at the 6 months and helping him move his > things out to another area, would be a nice thing to do. But also make an > amendment with the board that this won't happen again and that Syn/Hak is > not a corporation by any means. > > This is probably the best way to close the matter. Thank you Alex. I can > help look up what we need to do in order to just pay the taxes > appropriately on it as unrelated income and avoid any future repurcussions > on this lease. I may need some assistance understanding the legaleze and > how to fill out the forms. I simply ask that the treasurer simply deposit > the checks and retain a copy of each of those deposits so that I may fill > out said paperwork come tax time for Tax Year 2014. > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:07 PM, alex kot <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Just to clarify about the original intent. A rumor that finances where >> in question, if we could support the new space. Justin proposed an idea to >> assure additional income by storing his equipment at the new space, instead >> of some other place he was paying the same money for. A bunch of members >> and a few board thought it would be a great idea, since the new space had >> plenty extra room for it. The lease is for 6 months Justin was completely >> ok if he had to move the stuff out down the road. His intent was to help >> keep the structure alive, not for personal gain. This is becoming a battle >> of he should move his stuff out. I find it unexcellent to him, when his >> intent was just to help out the space. I think down the road Syn/Hak >> shouldn't be by any means a place of paid storage. It is hacker space. >> This wasn't the original intent on the deal. I think letting his lease >> complete at the 6 months and helping him move his things out to another >> area, would be a nice thing to do. But also make an amendment with the >> board that this won't happen again and that Syn/Hak is not a corporation by >> any means. That is just my input on it. >> >> >> >> On Thursday, March 6, 2014 4:57 PM, Byron Moran <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Ryan Rix <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Sounds like "Phong Robotics" is just jealous that "Something New >> >> > How about we just be excellent to each other >> >> *spews club mate all over screen* That was impressive, thank you, for >> that dichotomy. >> >> I've tried to not get involved in this since I don't actually think I'm >> a big part of the SYNHAK community besides knowing a handful of you >> hakkers, but watching all of this evolve has been really unsettling so >> I've been talking to some of you wonderful nerds. >> >> Subleasing the space's resources for private usage is antithetical to >> how a hackerspace's community should work, and this is a frightening >> precedence, regardless of who is acting in good faith, or who is >> not. Torrie has repeatedly brought up valid points which have been spat >> down by what appears to be a group of people who are content with the >> the idea that SYNHAK should be a private enterprise rather than a >> community resource as it was supposed to be when founded. >> >> The fact that the board feels that it is okay to sidestep membership >> vote makes me think that the membership should have real reservations >> about trusting the board leadership to properly lead the space in a >> trustworthy fashion. >> >> When put in contrast with the thread regarding AWS funding, it seems >> like Justin and Torrie and possibly other membership really have >> differences in opinion on how the community should function, and I >> would suggest a mediation process to reach a healthy middle ground, >> rather than watching the board and officers shit at each other all day. >> >> * ^^^^This. 1000x this. Stop this discuss list madness already it's >> crazy.* >> >> >> Past that, though, the board has a 501c3 obligation, the membership >> should really put some thought in to whether the board is capable of >> fulfilling that obligation rather than focusing on short-term gains at >> the cost of long term health of community and space. >> >> - >> Ryan Rix >> Shit head San Francisco tech worker >> >> alex kot <[email protected]> writes: >> > Sounds like "Phong Robotics" is just jealous that "Something New >> > Entertainment" thought of it first. Seriously, what do you propose >> > would be a good approach? All I hear is bickering about what should >> > have been done. Yes a mistake was made; we need to fix it so the board >> > doesn't do it again. Ripping up the lease and moving his stuff out is >> > unnecessary. Legally we are in the same boat as riding out the 6 >> > months vs. kicking it out now, am I wrong? How about we just be >> > excellent to each other and deal with the issue without creating any >> > unneeded anger. >> > >> > On Thursday, March 6, 2014 1:28 PM, Torrie Fischer >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > On Thursday, March 06, 2014 09:35:44 alex kot wrote: >> >> Craig makes a good point. The way I see it all your doing is >> > creating >> >> unnecessary drama, let the 6 months ride out. Justin did this whole >> > thing >> >> out of good intent, probably caused him more of headache then if he >> > just >> >> spent his money at the place it was already at. Issue is already >> > done we >> >> don't need to create any more issues after this. >> > >> > I am thoroughly concerned that you see this as "unnecessary". >> > >> > Any other board member might as well go and sign some other contract >> > that >> > leases out the space without public discussion. What is preventing >> > someone >> > from leasing out that front room to Phong Robotics? Letting this go >> > sets us up >> > for unfathomably awful problems in the future. If I pull out a a wad >> > of cash >> > and offer $500 on the spot for the exclusive rights to use that room >> > for six >> > months, and Craig signs the contract, there is nothing that can be >> > done about >> > it. According to this, they don't need to ask the membership if its >> > alright, >> > discuss the terms of the lease in advance with the board, or even >> > confer with >> > the board in any fashion. Just a brief casual mention at the end of a >> > weekly >> > meeting that seems to suffice. >> > >> > Heck, it doesn't even have to be Phong Robotics. If OSC Tech Lab wants >> > space, >> > and the deal is sweet enough, there is nothing stopping them from >> > slicing up >> > the space into private and common spaces. >> > >> > Money for a new laser cutter? Sure! You just need to give a >> > corporation the >> > exclusive right to access a significant portion of the floor space. No >> > need to >> > consult the members. No need for a board vote. Don't talk to the >> > treasurer, >> > they won't mind the hurdles. Lawyers are overrated, too. >> > >> > The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, March 6, 2014 12:14 PM, Craig Bergdorf >> > <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> imo a 990-t must be filed either way, (not cashing the checks means >> > nothing >> >> with a sublease that has the building owners signature on it (as he >> > will be >> >> filin it eitherway)), so why not just run it for 6 months. afaik it's >> > too >> >> late to do anything else (legally) without pretending events didn't >> > happen >> >> which could get us in real trouble. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:02 PM, a l <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> I'm not sure how you can claim consensus, when as you've pointed >> > out,there >> >> hadn't been a vote. >> >> >My point was that, as far as I understand, just because activity is >> > taxable >> >> >does not mean we cannot conduct it.we just need to file and collect >> > taxes >> >> >on these activities. As I pointed out this is additional work and >> > the >> >> >costs and benefits must be weighed. I have requested that this be >> > brought >> >> >to the vote since it was brought up in discussion in January. This >> > has not >> >> >happened. Regards, >> >> >Andrew L >> >> >On Mar 6, 2014 10:32 AM, "Torrie Fischer" >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >On Wednesday, March 05, 2014 10:00:39 a l wrote: >> >> >>> Thanks for the relevant sources and calm voicing of concerns. To >> > this >> >> >>> end: >> >> >>> Just because things require taxing does not mean we cannot >> > conduct them. >> >> >>> We >> >> >>> would just need to weigh the benefits and time involved. >> >> >> >> >> >>As the chief financial officer who is ultimately responsible for >> >> >>maintaining our tax records, I would very much rather not bring >> > about any >> >> >>potential for audits. This is *not worth it* and will require >> > substantial >> >> >>effort to convince me to deal with it, unless someone else wants >> > to >> >> >>doocratically step up and handle any unrelated business income and >> >> >>maintain that for the next few years. The Champions are also >> > welcome to >> >> >>initiate a coup to usurp my position. >> >> >> >> >> >>We lose physical space, I lose more time for non-treasurer things, >> > I'm >> >> >>responsible for even more legal overhead, future treasurers and >> >> >>secretaries >> >> >>will be responsible for maintaining the paper trail for the next >> > few years >> >> >>to prevent audit, etc. >> >> >> >> >> >>And we want volunteers to handle this? I believe I'm exceptionally >> > lucky >> >> >>among hackerspace treasurers in that I have a flexible situation >> > of >> >> >>office space, financial advice, and employment. >> >> >> >> >> >>Is this $600 worth the pain, including this heated argument that >> > has been >> >> >>going on for over a week, tearing us apart, and making us look >> >> >>dysfunctional to the whole freaking planet? >> >> >> >> >> >>I'm confident that the community of SYNHAK has reached consensus: >> > Do not >> >> >>do >> >> >>this. >> >> >> >> >> >>As the Treasurer for SYNHAK, Inc, I wish to inform the board that >> > they may >> >> >>disregard their treasurer's advice and concerns at their own risk >> > at the >> >> >>upcoming meeting. I am legally obligated by the bylaws to serve >> > the board, >> >> >>which I feel I have been doing faithfully and to the best of my >> > abilities. >> >> >> >> >> >>I think many would agree that I am usually the first to give the >> > benefit >> >> >>of >> >> >>the doubt regarding trustworthy actions. As a Member, I wish to >> > inform the >> >> >>board that the individuals involved have lost my trust and the >> > trust of >> >> >>many others for not having an open discussion about this up front. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Regards, >> >> >>> Andrew L >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Mar 5, 2014 9:24 AM, "Justin Herman" <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >> >>> > Also since this has been brought up before... >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > ...the following activities are specifically excluded from the >> >> >>> > definition >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > of unrelated trade or business: >> >> >>> > - *Volunteer Labor*: Any trade or business is excluded in >> > which >> >> >>> > substantially all the work is performed for the organization >> >> >>> > without >> >> >>> > compensation. Some fundraising activities, such as volunteer >> >> >>> > operated >> >> >>> > bake >> >> >>> > sales, may meet this exception. *[Bake SALE at the proposed >> >> >>> > Auction?]* >> >> >>> > - *Convenience of Members*: Any trade or business is excluded >> > that >> >> >>> > is >> >> >>> > carried on by an organization described in section 501(c)(3) >> > or by >> >> >>> > a >> >> >>> > governmental college or university primarily for the >> > convenience of >> >> >>> > its >> >> >>> > members, students, patients, officers, or employees. A typical >> >> >>> > example >> >> >>> > of >> >> >>> > this is a school cafeteria. *[Selling Arduinos or other >> > consumables >> >> >>> > in >> >> >>> > a vending area?]* >> >> >>> > - *Selling Donated Merchandise*: Any trade or business is >> > excluded >> >> >>> > that consists of selling merchandise, substantially all of >> > which >> >> >>> > the >> >> >>> > organization received as gifts or contributions. Many thrift >> > shop >> >> >>> > operations of exempt organizations would meet this exception. >> > *[All >> >> >>> > the donated Computers?]* >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> > http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Un >> >> >>> > rela >> >> >>> > ted-Business-Income-Tax-Exceptions-and-Exclusions> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Justin Herman >> > <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >> >>> >> This has already be researched.... >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> Page 17 Section Rental Income: >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> "Generally, income derived from the rental of real property >> > and >> >> >>> >> incidental personal property is excluded from unrelated >> > business >> >> >>> >> income." >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> It goes on to state HOW it would not qualify. (if there is a >> >> >>> >> mortgage, if >> >> >>> >> personal services are rendered, if a parking lot is charged) >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> I thought that this might not relate to us as this doc is >> > targeted >> >> >>> >> for >> >> >>> >> religious orgs. So I called the IRS before and they stated >> > that this >> >> >>> >> is >> >> >>> >> for >> >> >>> >> ALL 501(c)(3) orgs. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Devin Wolfe >> > <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Can you please provide your source? >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> Thanks, >> >> >>> >>> Devin >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> Sent with AquaMail for Android >> >> >>> >>> http://www.aqua-mail.com >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> On March 5, 2014 8:55:49 AM Torrie Fischer >> >> >>> >>> <[email protected]> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> I'm wearing my treasurer hat for this. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>>> After some digging around, I've come to the conclusion that >> > leasing >> >> >>> >>>> out >> >> >>> >>>> this space is incredibly likely to be considered a >> > violation of our >> >> >>> >>>> 501c3 >> >> >>> >>>> status as it is unrelated income. That $100/mo will need to >> > be >> >> >>> >>>> taxed >> >> >>> >>>> and >> >> >>> >>>> somehow proven that leasing out our space to non-hacking >> > purposes >> >> >>> >>>> will >> >> >>> >>>> further our mission of providing infrastructure to creative >> > people. >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> I'm not cashing any checks that arrive. >> >> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> >>>> Discuss mailing list >> >> >>> >>>> [email protected] >> >> >>> >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> >>> Discuss mailing list >> >> >>> >>> [email protected] >> >> >>> >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> > Discuss mailing list >> >> >>> > [email protected] >> >> >>> > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >> >>Discuss mailing list >> >> >>[email protected] >> >> >>https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> > >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >Discuss mailing list >> >> >[email protected] >> >> >https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Discuss mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Discuss mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Thanks, >> >> Byron D Moran >> Software Development Consultant >> (330)992-9766 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >
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