On 05/01/2021 15:47, Alexander Dahl wrote: > Hello, > > Am 05.01.21 um 13:41 schrieb Debian Community News Team: >> On 05/01/2021 13:22, quiliro wrote: >>> >>>> On 03/01/2021 14:40, quiliro wrote: >>>>> Which would be a good way to end this fighting? I know there are >>>>> wounds. But there could be a consensus to stop wounding each other >>>>> per >>>>> secula seculorum. >>> >>> Debian Community News Team <team@debian.community> writes: >>>> A group against one person is NEVER acceptable. >>> >>> Your point is clear. I do not have a position here because I have no >>> personal experience in this case. I do agree that a group against one >>> person should not be allowed. >>> >>> My question was not that. I asked if there could be a minimum >>> consensus. If it was possible, which would be the conditions? >>> >>> Is it so difficult for such a smart group of people to think about such >>> a solution which would bring us together in what we _do_ agree upon? >> >> There is another fundamental problem >> >> Some people, like Matthias Kirschner and Molly de Blanc, are not >> developers. > > I see no problem there. In a big group like the Free Software Community, > it would be actually be a problem, if everyone would be a developer. > There's so much more work to do than just coding.
Everybody is welcome: but somebody who is not a developer can't speak for developers. >> They can not do any technical work. There are some people >> like this in both FSFE and Debian, they have titles, like President in >> FSFE or "non-uploading Debian Developer", these are titles for imposters >> and girlfriends. > > That is a sexist statement. No, it is not. Female developers see Molly de Blanc as a keynote speaker, they hear that she was the girlfriend of the Debian Project Leader and they get even more angry than men. Women feel insulted when they see something like this: why did nobody offer the position or speaking opportunity to a female developer? Women work hard to complete their degree in computing or engineering and then they arrive at a conference and they are told that the Debian leader's girlfriend is going to speak for them. The implication of making Molly a speaker over and over again is that all women are the same, you can swap Molly with any other woman on the podium and it doesn't matter. That is sexist. >> Their participation in free software is solely to get money and power >> over other people. > > That is plain speculation. > >> To have some minimum consensus implies that these people have to give up >> some of their power or go away completely. Every time they feel there >> is a threat to their power, they attack somebody, like the attacks on >> the women and the attacks on the last fellowship representative >> >> The women were smarter than Kirschner: so he had to sack them and spread >> rumours about them to make himself look bigger and make them look >> smaller. That is how weak and cowardly men behave. Kirschner is weak >> and he is a coward. > > And that is a straight insult. It is not a rational action for a manager to sack all the women in his office. Sacking those women is an extreme action and the explanation, that he is a coward, is also extreme but very much true. >> Try to imagine Matthias Kirschner or Molly de Blanc leaving the FSFE and >> the OSI and other free software groups and going to another industry. >> For example, imagine they go to the medical industry and they ask to be >> President of the association for doctors. They are not developers, they >> are not doctors, but they ask to have these titles. Would the doctors >> appoint Matthias Kirschner or Molly de Blanc as their President? Or >> would they immediately reject them as imposters? > > You know, how should anybody take your claims seriously, if they are > accompanied by sexist, speculative and insulting sentences? I wouldn't. Have a look around in other industries, can you find examples of people like this infiltrating another association? _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfellowship.eu https://lists.fsfellowship.eu/mailman/listinfo/discussion
