On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 at 10:46, Chris Jerdonek <chris.jerdo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 1:25 AM, Tzu-ping Chung <uranu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Pipenv wraps pip usages inside a virtual environment, so pip is always > > available via “pipenv run pip”, > > so in a sense Pipenv “supports” everything pip does. But as far as things > > Pipenv actually has wrapper > > commands for, it only tries to be pip’s functional superset in “install” and > > “uninstall”; everything else > > is out of scope. > > I was asking more in terms of useful functionality in the broader > sense, rather than literal pip commands. Is any of pip's functionality > in the broader sense out of scope? > > For example, I'm guessing that the information in commands like pip > freeze, hash, list, and show might already be covered in a different > way by pipenv analogs. For reference, I'm including the list of > commands outputted by "pip help" below. > > What I'm trying to gauge is, if the plan is for pipenv not to depend > on pip, and pipenv has strictly greater functionality than pip, then > what purpose will PyPA have in continuing to develop pip in addition > to pipenv? This is what I was referring to in my earlier email when I > said it looks like it could "split the user and maintainer base in > two." > > This question is personal to me because I currently spend some time > improving and contributing to pip. But I may want to reevaluate that > if another, more active PyPA project is in the process of duplicating > that work or making pip superfluous. > > It seems like duplication of effort within an organization should be > discouraged when there is limited person power to begin with.
Speaking as a member of the pip development team, who has invested a lot of time in the development of pip (and still does), I can say with 100% certainty that there's no intention from me that pip is going to be "made superfluous". As a member of PyPA, I'll say that PyPA is basically a loose confederation of projects, and there's no real "overall PyPA plan" to consider here. There's likely a perception problem here about the role of the PyPA that we should try to address, but that's somewhat a separate problem. There's also something of a perception that pipenv and pip are somehow "competitors". There are a couple of aspects to that: 1. Is pipenv *actually* competing with pip? I don't think so, and I don't think that pipenv do either, but personally, I'd like to see a bit more clarity in the pipenv docs of how it addresses a different use case than pip. There was some unfortunate (again, IMO) miscommunication earlier on that they need to address, but again, I think it's just that - miscomunication, not reality. 2. Regardless, is it even a problem for 2 competing projects to be under the PyPA banner? I don't think it is (see "loose confederation" above) but again, that's related to clarifying the role of the PyPA. As far as duplication of effort is concerned, one of the points of this conversation is to ensure that the work that the pipenv developers are doing can also be used by pip - that's very much because we *don't* want pip to get relegated to a legacy role. But neither pip, nor (to my knowledge) pipenv support use as a library - so code sharing *has* to be done by identifying useful code and moving it out into supported libraries. Maybe, in the long term future, we'll end up with the PyPA managing a set of "packaging interop libraries" and a number of tools like pip, pipenv and maybe others, that layer a UI on top of that functionality. But there will still be a pip project, and it will still be developing and growing. tl; dr; Pip needs all the help you can offer and that's not going to change as a result of pipenv. Only you can choose what you're interested in working on, but don't make that decision based on any misguided idea that someone's making your work on pip obsolete. Paul -- Distutils-SIG mailing list -- distutils-sig@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to distutils-sig-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/lists/distutils-sig.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/distutils-sig@python.org/message/PGYZJKP6CW33HPVJGZYEJSSJC5DB5SH2/
