Stan --
Please watch your tone. Remember that this is a professional context.
The obscenity and combativeness aren't OK here.
Please everyone, take this elsewhere. This is turning into a flamewar,
and that's not what this group is for. If people can't let this thread
drop I'm going to have to employ more heavy-handed moderation, which I
really don't want to do. I'd really appreciate it if everyone here
could act like adults and just move on.
Jacob
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Stan <stanislas.gue...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Friday, October 5, 2012 3:17:02 PM UTC+2, Moonlight wrote:
>>
>> What is wrong with hello world application if you are testing web
>> application stack?
>
>
> I Moonlight (or maybe Andriy ?). Some thoughts :
>
> Don't be directly involved in a product you are benchmarking against. that's
> bad ;
> Make a relevant bench for the conclusion you are claiming. Print "Hello
> world" is not a benchmark to say a framework is faster than another one.
> Look at graphical card benchs. They don't display just a rotating cube at
> very low resolution with 4 colors ;
> Be scientifically rigorous. Every framework make stuff under the hood when
> you initialize a project that you can't disregard because the impact is
> high. Stacks and hooks (auth, session, localization) that can be tuned (or
> not) in your project settings for instance. So the same "Hello World" (which
> is only the tip of the fucking iceberg) can run 100 times faster according
> to your settings.
>
> The problem with Hello World is that it is way too simple, an insignificant
> parameter in the numerous/heterogenous/significant other parameters. It's
> like trying to work out the best cyclist with a 100m rush with very
> different kind of bike plus a backpack of different weights. That's why we
> have Le tour de France. Put some weight on what you test in order to
> outweigh other parameters.
>
> I do not say that this bench is absolutely useless. It can be used to show a
> regression, a bug, test the Apache stack. Not to make framework comparisons.
>
>
>>
>> Choosing framework X over Y doesn't guarantee any success to project. Good
>> thing to know your framework has a limit... that also tells me how effective
>> one or other implemented... I guess it tells that.
>>
>> I have had no idea until recently that django template are sooo slow...
>> other engines do the same... but spent less time. What the cool feature
>> prevent it for rendering it faster?
>
>
> I think this is not a scoop that Django template engine is not the fastest
> and you are free to use another one.
> But I would like to say, if you are in a serious business, don't give a
> fuck. This is the last reason to fail a real-life project and a pretty
> low-benefit optimization.
> Ok, this is important, but don't over-estimate it.
>
> By the way, I had the curiosity to take a look at Python ML entry which is
> called "Fastest web framework" and I the Wheezy framework. The cache api -
> for instance - is not something I would call well designed and useable :
>
> @response_cache(none_cache_profile)
> def change_price(request):
> ...
> with cache_factory() as cache
> dependency = CacheDependency('list_of_goods')
> dependency.delete(cache)
> return response
>
> Is it working code ? where does the returned response come from and how does
> the 3 lines above can impact it ?
> If you want to turn off the cache you have to change all that logical code,
> not just the @decorator, right ? Seriously, dude.
>
> If you try to sell your business, this is not the right way and not the
> right place, so maybe this should continue on Python Mailing list (or not).
>
> Stan.
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:14:43 PM UTC+3, Stan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 4, 2012 9:50:35 AM UTC+2, Moonlight wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I found the following benchmarks recently:
>>>> 1. http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html
>>>> 2. http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html
>>>>
>>>> It is interesting to see the performance boost using pypy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I still can't see why people wast so much time in such biased "Hello
>>> world" tests to claim a definitive "X is the fastest Python web Framework."
>>> Are the Hello world applications are strictly the same (sessions, auth
>>> etc) ?
>>>
>>> Anyway, there are so many ways to fail a project and the reason is never
>>> on the pseudo-helloworld benchmark bad results. Database optimization, ORM,
>>> API quality, documentation, libraries, security.
>>> Does your framework allow users to deliver in a limited time ? That is
>>> the true question.
>>>
>>> Stanislas.
>>>
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