Hi,

>
> Sorry but this is another WKBI.  Off the top of my head some of the
> reasons it doesn't work are:


Thank you for your comments, John!

>
> * There is no way to tell who forwarded a message, in particular you
> cannot expect the recipient to be in a To: or Cc: header.  You could
> invent a Forwarded-By: header, but of course bad guys add fake
> headers, so you'd have to track who's supposed to be forwarding what
> and you'd end up with a very complex and fragile forwarder whitelist.


The Received: header actually does most of this -- it contains the
EHLO and MAIL FROM information of previous envelopes.  It does not
always contain the RCPT TO (max one ends up in optional "for").

Given that SPF approves of a sender [because it is configured as a
reliable provider], one might trust the topmost Received: header to
have been delivered by that reliable party.  That assures us of the
sender one step down, and after a few steps we've left the entrance
points to our own realm [over which we have control, so not all bad]
and then... the customary SPF magic can take place, based on the
envelope data available there.  The last IP address logged comes from
the last trusted Received: header and that's the one that did the
crossover to our realm of control.

The devil will be in the details, I realise that.  But a lot of the
info you mentioned actually is there already, and is even obliged.
Things like one domain leaving multiple Received: headers, and
complex MTA infra that doesn't share input and output addresses.

>
> * There is a kludge called SRS that embeds the original bounce address
> in the forwarder's bounce address, but it doesn't help.


I agree.  And unpacking the address from SRS doesn't sound like a
dream of interoperability either.

One might actually rely on the From: header more than SPF does now;
unlike To: and Cc: this is a reliable address source [except for
bounces, which will normally transport directly and SPF-compliant].
The From: address can then be used at the end of the unraveled
envelope history from Received: headers.  Whee, it almost sounds
like DMARC is teaching SPF how it's done :)

>
> * Mailing lists invariably replace the incoming bounce address with
> their own bounce address so they can handle the bounces, which among
> other things means there you can't tell that a mailing list message is
> a mutated forwarded message from whoever originally sent it.  Skipping
> ahead, you might at best end up with a very complex and fragile
> mailing list whitelist.


Same as SRS, really.

>
> * Asking users to manage their own security settings doesn't work.
> See prior discussion of MUA highlighting and browser warnings.


Maybe.  They do manage their spam folders, and this may piggyback on that.

>
> PS: Most courtesy forwards don't break DKIM signatures.  That's not an
> accident.


I know; I am not focussing on these "most" cases, but on the rest.
Like this list :-) that requires DKIM re-signing.


Thanks for your thoughtful thoughts!

-Rick

_______________________________________________
dmarc mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc

Reply via email to