Ale is correct, the current outline is flawed. Organizational domain determination and default policy determination are one process, not two, and should be described together.
Relaxed alignment checking cannot begin until the organizational domain has been determined, and should be a separate topic. Doug On Sat, Aug 6, 2022, 7:30 AM Alessandro Vesely <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Fri 05/Aug/2022 19:18:23 +0200 Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > On August 5, 2022 9:15:32 AM UTC, Alessandro Vesely <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Thu 04/Aug/2022 22:50:20 +0200 John R. Levine wrote: > >>>> I think that Ale's expression that he had difficulty understanding > the description of the tree walk as written is a strong sign we still need > to improve the language. Of the people involved in this specific > discussion, as far as I know, he's the only one who's first language isn't > English. That's true for most of the people in the world, so I don't think > we can call it quite done. > >>> > >>> I took a look at the description ot the tree walk in section 4.6 and I > didn't see anything to change. I suppose we could add a sentence at the > top of the section reiterating some of the discussion in 4.4 that you do > tree walks on two domains to see if they are in relaxed alignment, or that > you do a tree walk on the RFC5322.From domain to find its policy domain, > but those seem marginal. > >>> > >>> What Ale seemed to be asking for was something saying these aren't > zone cuts and it's not the PSL. I don't think that would be a good idea. > The list of things we are not doing is unlimited, and mentioning some of > them just leads to questions about if you're not doing them, why did you > mention them? > >> > >> > >> I might have messed up that introductory paragraph several times, but > that's not the main point. *Section 4.8* mixes the definitions of > Organizational Domain and relaxed alignment. That way, it is difficult to > guess which precondition applies to which definition. I think native > English speakers may misunderstand it too. > > > > Please quote the exact text in Section 4.8 in the proposed text that you > believe provides a definition for relaxed alignment. I am unable to see it. > > > For example: > > This means that a DNS Tree Walk to discover an Organizational Domain > will start at once of the following locations. > > Organizational Domain, albeit in a DMARC sense, is a generic concept. > Someone, typically a developer, may want to determine it starting from an > input domain, without having to know in what location the domain was found. > > IOW, to say that there is no need to check alignment if no DMARC record > was > found is different from saying that the Organizational Domain cannot be > determined in the absence of a DMARC record. > > > >> In particular, the condition that a tree walk must have met a DMARC > record to be eligible for org domain determination —that is, org domain > cannot be determined unless a DMARC record is found— is not evident. It is > expressed only implicitly at the beginning. Then the paragraph "To > discover the Organizational Domain for a domain, [...]" can be interpreted > as the start of the org domain discovery algorithm definition, in the > middle of the alignment discussion, dropping the preconditions stated for > alignment. > > > > The first part of 4.8 defines the input process of doing a tree walk to > get a set of DNS data to use as an input for organizational domain > determination. The second part (as proposed) describes how to use that > data to determine an organizational domain. In my experience, describing > inputs to a process is both normal and necessary. > > > No, the input is a tree walk starting from a domain. A pre-condition is > that one or more DMARC records have been found in the tree walk. This is > implied, not said. > > > >> The juice of my proposal is to define the org domain discovery > algorithm in its own section, and discuss relaxed alignment elsewhere. > > > > I think that's exactly what the current text does. > > > No, despite the title, Section 4.8 describes checking alignment. > > > > Best > Ale > -- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dmarc mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc >
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