There is no universal definition of private data, so I don't think we should 
make universal claims about there being no private data involved.  It's true 
that some concerns might be assuaged by such an assurance, but I don't think 
that's a good reason to do it as I don't think the statement is accurate.

Also, I think if some aren't comfortable with reporting feedback, that's fine.  
I don't think 100% feedback coverage is a DMARC goal.  As long as there's 
enough for a statistically valid sampling, that's sufficient.

Scott K

Scott K

On April 25, 2023 5:32:23 PM UTC, "Brotman, Alex" 
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm not disagreeing with the idea below, just that by omitting this in the 
>draft, we could leave it open to interpretation that it *always* will be a 
>privacy violation.  This could justify decisions by some receivers to decline 
>to send reports.
>
>Otherwise, I'll remove 6.3.
>
>--
>Alex Brotman
>Sr. Engineer, Anti-Abuse & Messaging Policy
>Comcast
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dmarc <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Scott Kitterman
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2023 1:14 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dmarc-
>> aggregate-reporting-09.txt
>> 
>> Assuming for a moment that single user domains can't have a privacy violation
>> (I'm not sure I agree), how about a two person domain?  Three?  Unless it's
>> impossible to have a report that contains personal information, mail 
>> receivers
>> (report senders) absolutely can't rely on the assertion in question since 
>> they have
>> no way of knowing.
>> 
>> This is a pointless rabbit hole.  Let's not go down it.
>> 
>> Scott K
>> 
>> On April 25, 2023 4:58:26 PM UTC, Alessandro Vesely <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >John is not alone, I too can recognize single posts.  However, I'd argue 
>> >that in
>> such cases there is no privacy violation.  You violate privacy when you 
>> collect
>> personal data of (several) people *different from yourself*.
>> >
>> >Best
>> >Ale
>> >
>> >
>> >On Tue 25/Apr/2023 18:36:34 +0200 Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> >> My suggestion is delete all of it.  It's accurate for some cases, not for 
>> >> others.
>> If you want to keep any of it, I think it needs to be properly caveated.  I 
>> expect
>> that would be a Sisyphean task that's not worth the effort.
>> >>
>> >> Scott K
>> >>
>> >> On April 25, 2023 2:54:46 PM UTC, "Brotman, Alex"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>> As explained in 6.1, that's not actually true if the domains are small
>> enuogh.
>> >>>> In some of my tiny domains I can often recognize individual
>> >>>> messages I've sent.  I'd just delete these sentences.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'd argue that you're in a (mostly) unique situation where you're the 
>> >>> sender
>> and the report reviewer.  That being said, would you prefer I remove all of 
>> 6.3?
>> Does the remaining sentence have enough value to keep? Or sweep it up to 6.1?
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Alex Brotman
>> >>> Sr. Engineer, Anti-Abuse & Messaging Policy Comcast
>> >>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: John R. Levine <[email protected]>
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2023 10:18 PM
>> >>>> To: Brotman, Alex <[email protected]>; [email protected]
>> >>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [dmarc-ietf] I-D Action:
>> >>>> draft-ietf-dmarc-aggregate- reporting-09.txt
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > I removed the small section that faced objections.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > I updated the ridtxt definition and discovered that mmark was
>> >>>> > making a
>> >>>> mess of those asterisks.  When there are more than one/some on a
>> >>>> single line, it believes you would like some subset to be defined as 
>> >>>> "<em>"
>> things.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Looks pretty good.  Minor points:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The first paragraph in 2.6 says:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>      Where the URI specified in a "rua" tag does not specify otherwise, 
>> >>>> a
>> >>>>      Mail Receiver generating a feedback report SHOULD employ a secure
>> >>>>      transport mechanism.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Since the only mechanism is mail and nobody's going to S/MIME
>> >>>> encrypt their reports, I suggest just deleting it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 6.3:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>      Mail Receivers should have no concerns in sending reports as they 
>> >>>> do
>> >>>>      not contain personal information.  ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>      Domain Owners should have no concerns in receiving reports as they 
>> >>>> do
>> >>>>      not contain personal information.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> As explained in 6.1, that's not actually true if the domains are small
>> enuogh.
>> >>>> In some of my tiny domains I can often recognize individual
>> >>>> messages I've sent.  I'd just delete these sentences.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> R's,
>> >>>> John
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> >> From: dmarc <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
>> >>>> >> [email protected]
>> >>>> >> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2023 7:39 PM
>> >>>> >> To: [email protected]
>> >>>> >> Cc: [email protected]
>> >>>> >> Subject: [dmarc-ietf] I-D Action:
>> >>>> >> draft-ietf-dmarc-aggregate-reporting-09.txt
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line
>> >>>> >> Internet-Drafts
>> >>>> directories.
>> >>>> >> This Internet-Draft is a work item of the Domain-based Message
>> >>>> >> Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (DMARC) WG of the IETF.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>    Title           : DMARC Aggregate Reporting
>> >>>> >>    Author          : Alex Brotman
>> >>>> >>    Filename        : draft-ietf-dmarc-aggregate-reporting-09.txt
>> >>>> >>    Pages           : 28
>> >>>> >>    Date            : 2023-04-24
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Abstract:
>> >>>> >>    DMARC allows for domain holders to request aggregate reports from
>> >>>> >>    receivers.  This report is an XML document, and contains 
>> >>>> >> extensible
>> >>>> >>    elements that allow for other types of data to be specified later.
>> >>>> >>    The aggregate reports can be submitted to the domain holder's
>> >>>> >>    specified destination as supported by the receiver.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>    This document (along with others) obsoletes RFC7489.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
>> >>>> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra
>> >>>> >> ft-ie
>> >>>> >> tf-dmarc-
>> >>>> >> aggregate-
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>>
>> reporting/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!HBzOZHijNkg7AyDQnUKsIyEGZaJcT2dIFMGNVy
>> >>>> qsr7
>> >>>> >> nLWuCbVwCDo_mqKdBpLG2eSmAWmSaOYcZxRLwpzMl1GqF46TKSvg$
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> There is also an HTML version available at:
>> >>>> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draf
>> >>>> >> t-iet
>> >>>> >> f-dmarc-
>> >>>> >> aggregate-reporting-
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>>
>> 09.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!HBzOZHijNkg7AyDQnUKsIyEGZaJcT2dIFMGNVyqsr
>> >>>> 7nL
>> >>>> >> WuCbVwCDo_mqKdBpLG2eSmAWmSaOYcZxRLwpzMl1GqEqNRr1SA$
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> >>>> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff
>> >>>> >> ?url2
>> >>>> >> =draft-
>> >>>> >> ietf-dmarc-aggregate-reporting-
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>>
>> 09__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!HBzOZHijNkg7AyDQnUKsIyEGZaJcT2dIFMGNVyqsr7nLW
>> >>>> uC
>> >>>> >> bVwCDo_mqKdBpLG2eSmAWmSaOYcZxRLwpzMl1GqFdWqTU2g$
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at
>> >>>> >> rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> >> dmarc mailing list
>> >>>> >> [email protected]
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/d
>> >>>> marc
>> >>>> __;!
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>>
>> !CQl3mcHX2A!HBzOZHijNkg7AyDQnUKsIyEGZaJcT2dIFMGNVyqsr7nLWuCbV
>> >>>> wCD
>> >>>> >> o_mqKdBpLG2eSmAWmSaOYcZxRLwpzMl1GqEDBiM7_A$
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Regards,
>> >>>> John Levine, [email protected], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet
>> >>>> for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this
>> >>>> e-mail. <a
>> >>>> href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://jl.ly__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!Fpku
>> >>>> 2qYC
>> TuZKAA4K08a9mXXHN3ECaWvI28GCiy40HeEi8kyMh5bKjQWeT7UFbqsfeN5N
>> >>>> v88e0Nj1WqU$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://jl.ly__;!!CQl3mcH
>> >>>>
>> X2A!Cto4yMwda7b3nRK8gpGY7nKgl02tjSkT__FGFJ10Z6Tz6ib1muDEKkCAuWufI-
>> y
>> >>>> 7H7WVv7bkc3rHyFM3vJ9QPB69uRg$ </a>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> dmarc mailing list
>> >>> [email protected]
>> >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dm
>> >>>
>> arc__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!Cto4yMwda7b3nRK8gpGY7nKgl02tjSkT__FGFJ10Z6Tz6ib1
>> m
>> >>> uDEKkCAuWufI-y7H7WVv7bkc3rHyFM3vJ9QTLYW37U$
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> dmarc mailing list
>> >> [email protected]
>> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dma
>> >>
>> rc__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!Cto4yMwda7b3nRK8gpGY7nKgl02tjSkT__FGFJ10Z6Tz6ib1m
>> uD
>> >> EKkCAuWufI-y7H7WVv7bkc3rHyFM3vJ9QTLYW37U$
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >dmarc mailing list
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>> >https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc
>> >__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!Cto4yMwda7b3nRK8gpGY7nKgl02tjSkT__FGFJ10Z6Tz6ib1mu
>> DEKkC
>> >AuWufI-y7H7WVv7bkc3rHyFM3vJ9QTLYW37U$
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> dmarc mailing list
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>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc__;!
>> !CQl3mcHX2A!Cto4yMwda7b3nRK8gpGY7nKgl02tjSkT__FGFJ10Z6Tz6ib1muDEKk
>> CAuWufI-y7H7WVv7bkc3rHyFM3vJ9QTLYW37U$
>
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