On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 09:45:03AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 09:51:50AM +0200, Martial Bornet wrote: > > If Devuan is intended to respect the Unix philosophy, it must include "vi" > > in the default installation, and not as an optional package. > > Why not propose a choice for those who want another editor ? > > I have no problem with vi in the default installation. I have problems > with vi as the default editor -- the one a vi-novice is pitched into > when the system asks him to edit something. > > Neither emacs nor vi are suitable for this. > > Once the user has a chance to choose, he can choose whatever he wants > as default. No problem.
I notice that vipw and visudo default to vi. Honoring EDITOR or VISUAL environment variables by default would be a security hole, according to the man page. > -- hendrik > > > > > > > > > 2015-07-15 18:56 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Boom <[email protected]>: > > > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:29:26AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Franco Lanza" <[email protected]> > > > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 09:35:03AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > > > > >> Which is Devuan intended to be? > > > > >> > > > > >> 1) Debian without systemd > > > > >> 2) A Debian-like distro > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Nor 1 or 2. > > > > > Devuan is intended to be a debian that respect: > > > > > 1- freedom of choice > > > > > 2- UNIX philosophy > > > > > 3- KISS philosophy > > > > > > > > > > Of course first of all those 3 points make systemd unacceptable. But > > > > > saying that devuan is just "debian withous systemd" is riductive. > > > > > > > > > > traditionally UNIX has vi, this is why i'm suggesting it. No packages > > > > > needs to be changed at all for this eventual switch, and anyway, > > > > > as devuan respect the users, this choice isn't an imposition from "the > > > > > hight", but it's a question to the whole ml userbase to listen > > > pro/cons. > > > > > > > > In that case, my next question would be "Do we want to cater to those > > > > who > > > > are new to Linux/Unix?" If yes, then nano is a good choice. If no, > > > > then > > > > vi is a good choice. > > > > > > It not just Unix newbies that have trouble with vi. It's anyone used > > > to a editor different from vi. > > > > > > > > > > > I don't like using nano, and always install vim, followed by > > > > 'update-alternatives'. But I remember as a new user being frustrated > > > > that I couldn't follow a simple how-to because I didn't know how to use > > > > vi. When I discovered nano, it was a huge relief. > > > > > > I don't like using nano either, and always install emacs. But I > > > imagine that to new user, emacs might also be extremely frustrating. > > > Having nano as default before I've had a chance to install anything > > > else is a huge relief. > > > > > > > > > > > I don't mind defaulting to nano for the sake of new users, even if nano > > > > isn't what I want to use. I know how to change the defaults. A new > > > > user does not. > > > > > > Exactly. Let's not force any editor with a steep learning curve > > > on the beginner. Is there another editor as easy to *start* using as > > > nano? > > > > > > And let's not try to impose a one-sided settlement on the vi vs emacs > > > cotroversy. > > > > > > -- hendrik > > > > > > > > > > > -Rob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Dng mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Dng mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Joel Roth _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list [email protected] https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
