On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 07:30:03PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 21:32:13 +0200
> Adam Borowski <kilob...@angband.pl> wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 02:52:18PM -0400, zap wrote:
> > > removing runit-init and most other init options?  
> > 
> > runit-init got dropped not because of malice -- or rather, very much
> > because of malice but on the side of a bloody dictator rather than
> > that of the Debian release team.  After Dmitry Bogatov got arrested,
> > no one stepped in to fix the package on time 
> [snip]
> > I've warned you guys 
> Geez Adam, what next, fire and fury?

Uhm, I'm merely pointing out that bashing removing runit-init is misplaced.
Volunteers were asked for, both in Debian and (via me) on this list, no one
stepped up, thus runit-init didn't make it.

> For the time being, we have
> http://troubleshooters.com/linux/devuan_docs/runit_jessie.xhtml

Sorry but no.  You can tinker on your home desktop, which is nice for
development and for exploring new ways, but it's not something for an
average user, nor anything that has a place anywhere nearby a production
machine.  If I deploy a server, I can run a git version of its main service,
but the system's base is supposed to be well integrated already.

Your documentation is of great help to a package _maintainer_.  Some
parts could be edited into user documentation, but the vast majority is
about how to install it and beat into sanity -- something that should be
done by the maintainer.  Packaging is non-trivial work.

There's a reason LFS is a curiosity rather than something for everyday use,
despite its undeniable educational value.

> My intent is that people with more distro knowledge help me specialize
> the document for a Devuan runit *run from PID1* that everyone will like,
> and then somebody with apt-foo skills help me turn this document into a
> Devuan package.

Why do you insist on reinventing the wheel, if Dmitry Bogatov already made
working packaging?  That he was sitting in jail[1] for no fault of his own
meant he couldn't fix the bug.  And the bug was a problem with switching to
runit-init from, *drumroll*, systemd!

If this functionality is not commendable on this mailing list, I don't know
what could possibly be.

> I have a hunch that the finished product will be better
> than anything offered by Debian because, ummm, Debian.

Right... for now, we have vapourware.
> Meanwhile, it's still reasonably easy to install runit from the
> upstream.

Sorry but this would have been acceptable in 1980s or perhaps even 1990s. 
We're not living in the world we hear of in tales about /usr split's origin,
when Thompson and Ritchie managed _the_ Unix installation.  Instead, we have
plenty of containers, chroots and logical systems on a phone.  Installing
core components of a system by following a multi-page doc just doesn't


[1]. Posts for which he was jailed then (currently) under house arrest with
no access to any network were certainly not even written by him, as he was
recorded by a camera in a shop -- and posts from that account continued
after his arrest.  But it's not like courts care about details such as
guilt when there's an opportunity to make an example of someone with views
unfavourable to the rulers.
⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ James Damore is a hero.  Even mild criticism of bigots these days
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ comes at great personal risk.
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