This is a fascinating, awareness enriching discussion that will definitely help the entire documentation team. The resolution of these issues will make a big impact on the documentation process.
On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 1:43 AM, toki <[email protected]> wrote: > On 04/26/2018 07:12 AM, Martin Srebotnjak wrote: > > >>> I'm only sad that we are not part of the discussion when we are highly > concerned. > >> That probably has as much to do with where and when the discussions are > held, as anything else. > > you miss the point. Changing help (documentation project) and UI (UX > project) is not a self-enclosed thing. > > One of the vices of agile development is that documentation is > considered to be, at best, unnecessary. This applies for both developer > documentation, and user documentation. > > Whilst the theory is that Agile Development has the following for End > User Documentation Creation: > > * using a topic-oriented approach such as the Darwin Information Typing > Architecture (DITA) or Information MappingTM > * leveraging user stories to produce task-oriented documentation > * applying minimalist principles > * participating as an active team member > > the reality is that the usual Agile Development creed on end user > documentation is _They Ain't Gonna Read It So Why Bother Writing It_. > > >This is one of the biggest open source projects and changes in code (and > UI and documentation) affect not only many community members participating > in the project on different tasks, but millions of users. > > The other part of the equation, is that there were/are features and > capabilities in LibO that virtually nobody other than the original > developer knows exist. Features that never made their way into any > user-documentation, and only got one line in a developer synopsis. > > By way of example, which version of Logo is embedded within LibO? > > Only slightly more esoteric is which version of R does LibO have hooks > for? (Who needs VBA when you've got R?) > > Now wondering if the Flight Simulator game was removed from LibO. > > > So we do need to copy or thoroughly adapt some of the "corporate" > workflow magic and make this process a road to success, not to chaos. > > Sun practiced waterfall development, in which specifications for > everything were written out in advance. > > TDF practices agile development, in which nothing is specified until > after delivery. > > The adoption of these models reflect what was considered to be "best > practices" when the organization started developing the program. > > There are advantages and disadvantages to each of these models. > > >but there must be a workflow where such changes, when already thought > through by its native team, > > The thinking through, as such, happens during/after construction, not > before construction. > > This is why the _only_ way that l10n teams can get a hint of what will > happen, is to have a designated l10n team member, whose sole function is > to sit in on each and every call, and follow both the Bugzilla, and > Commits list, and the use-case and user-story storyboards for each > proposed function, capability, etc. > > I realize that that is literally a full time job. > > > with l10n teams (who are not just localizers, translators, but in most > cases promoters of LO in their countries/languages/cultures and can offer a > lot of advice what might not be good for their language/cultural > environment/law requirements) - before they get introduced. So we need such > a forum/discussion point in development process. > > +1 > > > I often remember the OOo days where every upcoming bigger feature had a > webpage (a kind of a wiki page in the Sun web subworld) made by the > developers, > > That happened for both minor and major features. > It is a side effect of the waterfall model of software development. > > If you roam around on the openoffice.org website, you can still find > some/most of those web pages. > > >but all this iterative changing (that does lead to better and better > results, no doubt about it) in the end hits the l10n teams and makes their > members feel like Sisyphus. > > Sisyphus was lucky. He knew his fate. > > jonathon > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected] > Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- > unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected] Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
