** PeterMerchant via dorset <dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk> [2019-03-14 12:13]: > On 13/03/2019 17:39, Paul Tansom wrote: > > ** Ralph Corderoy <ra...@inputplus.co.uk> [2019-03-10 14:46]: > > > Hi Terry, > > > > > > > I commented that it was a shame that the Government / BBC hadn't > > > > chosen the Raspberry Pi, since it already had a strong community. > > > I think two things counted against the Pi back then. It's price, though > > > I haven't checked on what Pi models were available when the decisions > > > would have been being made, i.e. quite a bit before the micro:bit's > > > release. And the opaqueness of its innards given it's a proprietary GPU > > > that happens to be able to load code for an ARM on the side to run. > > > Broadcom were never keen on opening the private bits up when I used to > > > follow the topic. > > > > > > In comparison, the micro:bit is a lot more standard design for a `dev' > > > board, with two ARMs, a Cortex M0 where your code runs, and a Cortex M0+ > > > that provides the USB access to program the M0. Ditching the video > > > output leaves a simpler system to build from scratch. > > > > > > (I have a micro:bit.) > > ** end quote [Ralph Corderoy] > > > > They are in fact very different beasts. I was initially very enthusiastic > > about > > the Raspberry Pi, and still am to some extent, but less so in a school > > environment. To be fair it depends on the infrastructure. A lab full of them > > with various bits of physical computing to go with them is great, but I've > > tended to see teachers wondering what to do with them, lacking the space, > > keyboards, mice and screens to use without detaching the ones on the > > existing > > IT suite and then looking to use them in ways that, in the school > > environment, > > you could just as easily do on the desktop with the right software. To my > > mind > > there are two key advantages to the Pi. Cheap machine to be used at home > > instead of the main computer to experiment with (very much the home > > computer of > > my youth - bar the games I guess), or properly setup for physical computing > > (again, to some extent BBC Micro style). They need a notable investment in > > time > > and resources for proper use in schools. > > > > By contrast I was pretty sceptical about the Micro:bit when it was > > launched. I > > couldn't quite see how it would be used. I've changed my mind, largely > > based on > > the fact that they are plug and play into a desktop computer (well not with > > the > > latest firmware on Windows 7, but that's another story), and you can code on > > the desktop and download onto a physical device in a very hands on way. It > > is > > to some extent more like an Arduino, where the Raspberry Pi is a stand alone > > computer (although that can be flexible in some cases). One pain point is > > power, it is a shame they backed off the original plan here, the AAA battery > > pack is a pain and a coin cell pack adds to the cost. > > > > A couple of simple examples from my after school club in a primary school: > > > > I intended to use a Raspberry Pi to control a robotic arm, but in the end it > > was easier to use my netbook than get a screen, keyboard and mouse setup. > > > > I have used a Pi with a Unicorn Hat (8x8 grid of LEDs) to play with old > > school > > user defined graphics drawn on a piece of paper in frames, converted to a > > number (good old binary) and entered into a Python program. That needed > > time to > > disconnect the monitor and then use my wireless keyboard/touchpad so I had > > one > > for the whole class. I had some great animations :-) > > > > Micro:bit wise, I've used them for a Rock, Paper, Scissors game (popular as > > I > > walked across the playground, as I forgot I had it on a lanyard round my > > neck!). It can play against another Micro:bit, a similar program on Scratch, > > live opponent or etc. - although not necessarily with direct communication! > > > > I'm playing with the 'radio' for messaging between Micro:bits at the moment, > > but it hasn't been field tested in class. > > > > Referencing the issues touched on above, the latest firmware introduces > > WebUSB > > to allow the code to download from the browser (presumably whichever > > language > > you choose) straight to the Micro:bit, but this lacks support in Windows 7. > > This causes plug and play issues, particularly when it reinstalls the > > driver if > > you don't use exactly the same unit. > > > > There may be some interesting possibilities with the Pi Zero that can > > connect > > using an OTG cable allowing SSH access (or other network protocol) giving > > the > > potential for similar interaction to the Micro:bit (although more complex) > > and > > removing the need for extra peripherals. You could then control the various > > Hats via Python from a desktop. There was also a thing called the Rtk.GPIO > > which connected to a PC via USB to give it Raspberry Pi compatible GPIO > > ports. > > Not sure where / whether they are still available, and they didn't work with > > all Hats. > > > > That was more than I planned to type. Just checked and I appear to have 13 > > Raspberry Pis of various sorts (one running Nextcloud for the past couple of > > years) and 11 Micro:bits. I know where all the Micro:bits are - which > > reminds > > me I need to downgrade the firmware for tomorrow. > > > Very interesting Paul, especially looking at your company blog. You state > that you are using it at a primary school, but my local children (not mine, > but those I asked) are at a middle school. Excellent work. > > Going off topic, with my grandchildren I have used the Scratch Jr. app on > Android, or gone on line to the MIT incarnation. From your blog I get the > impression that there is a Scratch program for Windows? I see that there is > one for Linux, but it prefers an older version of ubuntu. ** end quote [PeterMerchant via dorset]
Erk, my blog! I haven't updated that for years. Unless you mean the club blog, in which case... Erk, the club blog! It is convenient to make links available, but hardly exiting :-) I've been using Scratch at the primary school since 2012 and ran a teacher training session way back to get the staff familiar with it. I haven't heard the term middle school in active use for a long while. All the schools here are primare, junior or infant. I took a quick look at Scratch Jr when it launched, but couldn't see much of value for my usage. There is a Scratch for Windows (and Mac) and there was (still is an old version) a Scratch for Linux. The original version of Scratch was written in Squeak I seem to remember, and there was a version of that for Linux, which you can still download. The next version was written from the ground up in Flash of all things and there was briefly an offline version for Linux, but that only lasted as long as Adobe Air lasted for Linux (not long). The latest version is HTML5 and there are offline versions for Windows and Mac, but only a promise that they are working 'partners and the open source community'. I suspect this may include the Raspberry Pi foundation as they did have a Scratch 1 and abit that was being The original version of Scratch was written in Squeak I seem to remember, and there was a version of that for Linux, which you can still download. The next version was written from the ground up in Flash of all things and there was briefly an offline version for Linux, but that only lasted as long as Adobe Air lasted for Linux (not long). The latest version is HTML5 and there are offline versions for Windows and Mac, but only a promise that they are working 'partners and the open source community'. I suspect this may include the Raspberry Pi foundation as they did have a Scratch 1.4 and abit that was being developed when version 2 basically abandoned the platform. This was working towards adding the Scratch 2 features, but I'm not sure how far it got. Initially I was impressed with Scratch, and as a platform it is improving. My main issue is the fact that it is primarily intended for use online, which both puts the kids in a browser with all the potential distractions and ability to have another site in a different tab for when you're not looking, and also provides the other distraction of lots of other project (mainly games) to play rather than develop new ones. I think this is a change in the kids over the years too. I was spoilt in my first few years, initially with my eldest son's class when they were year 6 who I had known since they started school, and then with a few really enthusiastic and tallented coders who really went for it with some games that could easily have been cover tapes back in the 80s. If you want something offline to run on Linux, and aren't wedded to Scratch itself, you could do a lot worse than taking a look at Snap! Nothing to do with the Canonical universal Snap packaging, and the ! is part of the name. Snap! is from Berkley rather than MIT and was a reimplemention of Scratch in Javascript. This makes it more flexible and means that you can download it and run it offline in a browser from a file: link. It has diverged a bit, and clearly isn't as active, but is still pretty comprehensive with a selection of extensions available. https://snap.berkeley.edu/ -- Paul Tansom | Aptanet Ltd. | https://www.aptanet.com/ | 023 9238 0001 Vice Chair, FSB Portsmouth & SE Hampshire Branch | http://www.fsb.org.uk/ ============================================================================= Registered in England | Company No: 4905028 | Registered Office: Ralls House, Parklands Business Park, Forrest Road, Denmead, Waterlooville, Hants, PO7 6XP -- Next meeting: BEC, Bournemouth, Tuesday, 2019-04-02 20:00 Check to whom you are replying Meetings, mailing list, IRC, ... http://dorset.lug.org.uk/ New thread, don't hijack: mailto:dorset@mailman.lug.org.uk
