Garey,
Sorry about the delay in my response. Time gets away from me.
I acquired the TR-4C several years ago and my normal procedure is to put a
new acquisition on the bench and run it through a simple use test. Then I
tag it with the information, working or not, and put it on the shelf for
later free time. This one has no tag, so my procedure must have failed. I
don't remember if the bias worked or not. My guess is not.
Yes, the receiver works just fine. The RV-4C is on the shelf, not connected.
VOX and ANTI-VOX are set at mid-range.
The transmitter works fine also, I just can't measure the bias current. Can
I assume that the bias current is close to 100 mA if the bias voltage is
~ -60 VDC? It seems like there must be an open in the meter circuit when
switched to set the bias. That should involve switches and relay contacts in
the circuit. I am not very good at tracing circuits on the schematic when
they start running through switches.
In SSB mode, NON-X position, grounding the 'TIP' MIC connector pulls in the
relay.
I should probably order a new relay and try it, but the old one appeared to
work when I had it out and open for cleaning. One set of contacts was
somewhat dirty but I had good continuity after cleaning.
Richard
Richard -
Probably should have asked this question a while ago, but has this
transmitter EVER worked, to your knowledge?
Does the receiver work?? Do you have an RV-4(C) connected? Verify that
the VOX and ANTI-VOX controls on the right side are about mid-range.
Unless something has been rewired, the Cathode line of the PA should read
that 0.3 to 0.4 VDC ANY time the relay (the four pole one near the power
connector) is energized, regardless of ANY other switch position. The
Cathode lead comes through the feedthrough cap on the PA section shield,
goes to R45 (2 ohms, on the board with the relay) and is hard wired from
the other end of R45 to the relay contact. This contact is grounded any
time the relay is energized, grounding the PA Cathodes.
When it's in SSB, in the NON-X position, try grounding the 'TIP' of the
MIC connector and see if the relay pulls in.
73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA
Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
<www.k4oah.com>
Donley wrote:
Garey,
I replaced the 6EV7 and there was no change. The plate voltage on the
6EV7 measures a little low at 230 VDC (supposed to 260). This makes the
voltage on the relay lower than the 48 VDC (measures about 26 V if I
remember correctly, but it seems to pull in okay). I measured the four
voltages in all combinations of the sideband switch and the mode switch
settings (sideband switch in non-X position and mode switch in SSB
position and then in X-CW position). Then (sideband switch in X position
and mode switch in SSB position and then X-CW position).
The four plate voltage measurements were 687 to 690 VDC.
The four screen voltage measurements were 230 to 236 VDC (a little low if
260 is correct).
The four grid voltage measurements were around -60 VDC.
When the Mode switch was in the SSB position, the cathode voltage was 156
VDC for each position of the sideband switch.
When the Mode switch was in the X-CW position, the cathode voltage was
0.3 to 0.4 VDC.
When I said I could adjust the bias voltage in the sideband X position, I
didn't tell you that to do that I had to advance the transmitter gain
control slightly to get 100 mA. But when I switched back to sideband
non-X position, the current dropped to zero with no control by the bias
knob on the AC-4.
I have pulled the one relay and opened it and cleaned the contacts with
no change. Also cleaned the contacts on the second relay.
I have a power supply rebuild kit to install but the voltages appear to
be okay and steady. I should probably order a new relay and try that.
If I adjust the bias pot to get -60 VDC, I have no idea what the bias
current is, but I get plenty of power out, around 200 watts, so it seems
to work , I just can't measure the current.
??
Richard
----- Original Message ----- From: "Garey Barrell" <[email protected]>
To: "Donley" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Drakelist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment
Richard -
I've thought about this some more this afternoon, and I think the next
step is to measure the PA voltages with the switches set per the manual
and see WHAT is missing.
There aren't that many choices, ONE or more of the three are missing or
incorrect.
Plate +650 VDC
Screen + 260 VDC
Grid ~ -60 VDC
Cathode ~ 0 VDC
73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA
Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
<www.k4oah.com>
Donley wrote:
"My guess is that either a KEY is plugged in and open, or the
'shorting' jack, isn't! Try just
inserting a phone plug into the KEY jack several times to see if that
shorting contact will close as
it should. Otherwise just insert a shorted phone plug into the KEY
jack."
Garey,
Been there, did that. The key is not plugged in but the jack is shorted
as it should be. When set up according to the manual, there is no bias
current indicated on the meter when adjusting the bias control, but
there is adjustable voltage (around -60 VDC +/- adjustable) on the PA
grids. If I switch the sideband back to the "X" position, there is
current indicated and I can easily vary it with the bias control and
get 100 mA. What is the difference in being in the "X" sideband or
opposite sideband position? Both are done with no transmitter gain and
I get current in the "X" position and not in the other. Maybe there is
an open condition on the sideband switch when it is in the non "X"
position.
Question - Is the bias current just plate current with no transmitter
gain?
Thanks.
Richard
kc9ub
----- Original Message ----- From: "Garey Barrell"
<[email protected]>
To: "Donley" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Drakelist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Drakelist] TR-4C Bias Adjustment
Richard -
I'm not sure I follow your description below.
1. There is only ONE metering circuit, NO switching involved. If it
can read PLATE current it can also read BIAS current.
2. 26 V across the relay sounds low, but if it pulls in that can be
left til later.
The manual says to switch the SIDEBAND switch counter-clockwise (the
'non-X' position) and the MODE switch to X-CW. I don't have a TR-4C
set up at the moment, but I believe the KEY has to be closed. IF you
have a key plugged in, it must be shorted. IF you do NOT have a key
plugged in, there is a contact on the key jack that is 'supposed' to
short the key. IF this contact does not MAKE properly you would see
what I think you are describing.
The goal here is to put the transceiver into TRANSMIT mode (X-CW) with
the 'non' X SIDEBAND selected and the MIC GAIN at minimum. This
should register the BIAS current of the PA stage since you're
essentially in SSB with no audio applied, resulting in only the
suppressed carrier and no PLATE current.
My guess is that either a KEY is plugged in and open, or the
'shorting' jack, isn't! Try just inserting a phone plug into the KEY
jack several times to see if that shorting contact will close as it
should. Otherwise just insert a shorted phone plug into the KEY jack.
73, Garey - K4OAH
Glen Allen, VA
Drake 2-B, 2-C/2-NT, 4-A, 4-B, C-Line
and TR-4/C Service Supplement CDs
<www.k4oah.com>
Donley wrote:
A few weeks ago I started working on putting a TR-4C back on the air.
I posed a question about the bias adjustment. I finally got back to
working on the transceiver and still have some questions. I have
followed all the information that has been sent to other people with
bias problems, but that info has not helped me.
My problem is that the bias current is not displayed or changed on
the Plate Current meter when I adjust the bias control. I can measure
and adjust the bias voltage on the final grids so I know the system
is working, I just can't measure the current. I have done most of the
suggested things: loosen and retighten most ground screws, pulled and
checked all tubes and used Deoxit on the pins and reinserted multiple
times to clean the pins and sockets and cleaned the contacts on the
relays. The 48 volt relay only has 26 volts on the pins, but it
appears to pull in okay and work. Is 26 volts normal?
Using the Drake manual instructions for bias adjust, no plate current
reading is detected even though everything seems to be working. With
the sideband switch in the clockwise position (opposite what the
directions say) and transmitter gain full counterclockwise, I can
adjust the plate current with the bias control. I also get full power
output and can control the plate current with tuning and loading.
It seems everything is fine except being able to measure the bias
current with the recommended setup procedure.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
73
Richard
kc9ub
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