John, I agree with you about moving this discussion off the list. But one more thing, I strongly suggest that you read the bill that passed in congress. I did. It is not what is portrayed on that Wiki. It is many times worse than what you are calling socialized medicine. David, AC7DS
--- On Wed, 1/20/10, John Hays <[email protected]> wrote: From: John Hays <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 6:24 PM While I have strong opinions about personal rights and society's needs, particularly as relates to both HOAs and the way this country provides healthcare -- this topic should be moved off list. (And what is being proposed in the US is not Socialized medicine, the UK has socialized medicine, read government owned and operated -- we are about the only developed country that doesn't provide universal healthcare and there are a lot of models, not just the socialized medicine of the UK which the insurance companies have used as their boogie man. See http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Universal_ healthcare to see the various approaches -- if you want to discuss off list, please email me directly.) On Jan 20, 2010, at 3:16 PM, David Holman wrote: Hey Barry, Actually they did. The first freedom they took was your freedom of choice. And in some areas, its not a choice of living in an HOA controlled commune or not, its a choice of which one is worse, which is no choice. If you don't want to live in a commune, you have to move ridiculously far away (like here). We chose the school district. To live in the school district, we have to live in an HOA controlled commune. I didn't choose to join the HOA, I chose the house. HOAs are NOT voluntary membership organizations. The HOA was forced on me. They didn't give me a choice about whether or not I wanted to join. They took my freedom of choice. And until everyone starts to see it this way, we will continue to loose our rights daily. It is NOT OK, customary, normal or acceptable to take individual rights and freedoms, for any reason outside of the fact that a person has proven they can't handle them. You moved into a non-commune area, but you didn't give up any rights. You don't have the right to tell your neighbor anything about how to run his life, in the first place. If it is not health or safety related or somehow interacts with you, you have no right to force any your beliefs on your neighbor (what is pretty or aesthetically pleasing is a belief). If you are afraid of your neighbors, I would suggest moving into an apartment where the property owner does have the right to tell the residents what they can and can't do on his property. Become friends with the property owner. 73 David, AC7DS ___ John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: [email protected] Email: [email protected]
